Arc Welder Group Test

  1. This is the exact same reason I want to learn the "hard way" with rods and a cheap buzz box. If I can learn and learn well with something hard to use, then I should have very little problem with better and more expensive gear. Or is my logic flawed?:whistle:

    I learned to use a manual typewriter at school to pass my "O" Grade long before I ever used a proper word processor.

    I'm very much a believer in learn the hard way first, then learn the shortcuts. That way you've got more experience and can cope with things and situations better than you could if you only learned the easy way, if that makes sense.

    Regards,

    Ian.
     
  2. Wozzaaah

    Wozzaaah The wizard of woz Staff Member

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    Wiltshire, UK
    Detention for you laddie!!! :laughing:
     
  3. Archie Member

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    2,297
    UK
    I must not stereotype people by their cars.
    I must not stereotype people by their cars.
    I must not stereotype people by their cars.
     
  4. malcolm

    malcolm & Clementine the Cat

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Bedford UK
    I've always argued exactly the opposite.

    It is easier to achieve a reasonable standard when learning with good equipment. Once you have a reasonable standard you then know how things should work and can make the best of nastier equipment. Or have a good idea which bit of equipment to change if you are unable to achieve a good standard with practice on the cheap kit.

    Reasonable kit makes it easier to learn, and gives an idea of what should be happening. It doesn't take the skill out of the job - if anything it allows you to develop more skills doing things that cheap kit just won't let you do. It'll give you good feedback if your rod angle or arc length is wrong.

    Too many people buy equipment on price alone, don't learn to weld properly, and give up without achieving anything. It's nothing to do with typewriters, more like deciding to become a stone mason and buying a blunt chisel.
     
  5. weldequip Forum Sponsor

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    5,313
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    :clapping::clapping:

    Malcolm, those words should have been written into President Obama's inauguration speech! :p
    weldequip
     
  6. matt1978

    matt1978 www.lorch.eu

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    Ask not what can your welding supplier do for you.................but what you can do for your welding supplier!! :whistle::clapping:
     
  7. GeorgeB pre-moderated

    Messages:
    879
    London, UK
    As you know, I was well-impressed with your MIG welder on Sunday. Even at my very first attempt, it seemed like point and shoot, with virtually no skill required to get a fair result! What can be better than that if you have the storage space for such a large unit and can justify the cost of the gas and other consumables?

    So I can see your analogy as far as MIG vs Arc but not Arc vs Arc as in differences between the units mentioned in this thread. The buck stops with any of these arc units at the tip of the weld rod. How they 'smooth' and 'process' the electricity up to that point is their business. It's the result which counts. I fully accept Snowcat's point that his £2500 Lorch machine is primarily about TIG and it's not fair to call it a £2500 arc welder.

    I agree with Muggins that it's better to learn the basics first with simple gear. Or, at least, that's the approach I'm using by sticking with Arc for the time being. I also used that approach with a fully manual SLR film camera, rather than using a point and shoot automatic camera.
     
  8. GeorgeB pre-moderated

    Messages:
    879
    London, UK
    Yes, any suggestion by President Obama that buyers should always select the most expensive items going would surely have been in the best interest of salesmen all around the world. I have high hopes for that guy and am confident his judgement is a lot better than that.
     
  9. malcolm

    malcolm & Clementine the Cat

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    Location:
    Bedford UK
    Is your analogy the right way around there?
     
  10. GeorgeB pre-moderated

    Messages:
    879
    London, UK
    I'm not sure! I was picking up on what I see as Muggins' valid point that there might be advantages in learning on relatively 'difficult' gear which probably requires a greater level of skill. To use a fully manual SLR, I think you need to undertand concepts such as focus, depth of field and aperture settings, which may then prove useful even if you move on to an automatic camera later. You need to balance gas flow, wire speed, etc with a MIG but it's still reckoned to be easier to learn than arc or TIG welding.
     
  11. I guess there is two schools of thought then... One being to learn on something easy and progress, the other being to start on something difficult and develop the skills the hard way. Or is that an oversimplification?

    Regards,

    Ian.
     
  12. weldequip Forum Sponsor

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    :confused: SLR's are the camera connoisseur's choice are they not?
    weldequip
     
  13. malcolm

    malcolm & Clementine the Cat

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    I used to play around with black and white on a manual SLR. I agree the learning improved my photography no end.

    Your analogy is not valid though. Would be more correct to compare my first 1.5 megapixel digital camera with no user alterable settings (and I think a fixed focus) with my current semi SLR 8 megapixel camera. It would have been difficult to learn photography with that first digital camera - it took rubbish photos whatever you did with it.

    Besides, you are arguing the point for the sake of it. If the Lorch was £40 and the Cosmo £400 which one would you be arguing was better for learning?

    Edit> just spotted the topic had moved on without me noticing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2009
  14. might as well have my shillings worth here.
    Which is easier to learn to ride a bicycle or a unicycle. A bicycle isnt that difficult to learn to ride, you will most likely master the skill before you give up. But learning to ride a unicycle my opinion is you are more likely to give up before you learn.
    I think Malcolm is right in his analogy. trouble is a buzz box can be had for under £50, so you are more likely to try with a buzz box. I do often wonder how many people buy cheap difficult to learn with equipment and actually give up after a while.
     
  15. Some would suggest that separates the men from the boys.:laughing: But joking aside I do see both sides of the arguement, if I won a lot of money I'd buy a lorch or throw wads of money at Weldequip to buy his finest MIG. Until that time or till my job prospects improve, I'll have to stick with the Aldi £40 special and make the most of it's (and my) limitations.:whistle:

    Regards,

    Ian.
     
  16. aero Member

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    400
    Its more important when learning to have good stuff. Its hard enough to learn a new skill without **** poor equipment hampering you. And I've now officially filed all those cheapy buzz boxes as **** poor. I'd rather buy something from a quality range secondhand then new rubbish.
     
  17. Hi Aero,

    I'm not disagreeing with you but without a car to pick it up and transport it, a second/third hand Oxford wasn't an option for me.:ashamed:

    Regards,

    Ian.
     
  18. aero Member

    Messages:
    400
    Not all buzz boxes are cheap crap, some actually work OK. I used a Clarke machine I think it was, 160 amps with fan. Welded with it for around and hour at 100 amps before it clicked off. Then off it went again, no drama and seemed to weld OK.

    A rod and a half at 90 amps before its reduced to a glowing wreck isn't worth £40 to me!
     
  19. That Powercraft I got from Aldi has been through two 3.25mm 6013's @ 115 Amps without cutting out or smoking, I just ran out of metal to weld though.:laughing:

    Regards,

    Ian.
     
  20. scarecrow

    scarecrow Outstanding in his field

    Messages:
    1,622
    Ireland
    As I said before I would be more worried about the wires heating up inside the machine
    if a Chinese motor is rated three 3hp. It means that it can produce 3hp before it goes on fire they must rate their welders in a similar fashion
     
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