Anyone in a Skills Exchange?

[armalites]

Apprenticeships never have. The principle (rightly or wrongly) has always been that you take short term immediate low pay in the knowledge that when you've done your time you get the benefit. People (including teenagers) want everything now so are reluctant to invest in their own future.

I think that does depend on a lot of factors. We went to the open days at Hereford Group Training with our kids. It is a organisation set up by a group of companies who realised they were getting short of suitable new staff. Nobody there gets a free ride, they have to clock in every day and they have to get selected by an employer but quite a few of the companies pay over the odds when they get good apprentices so that they stay. When we first went there a couple of years back they had apprentices in training there who were on £280/week because their companies topped up the wages.

I do agree that many things have got really easy in the world and people expect quick results, you've only got to look at any Facebook group, car groups seem really bad, people asking question because it's easy than just opening the owners manual in the glove box.

 

[gaz1]

I found that, when I left school and went into an apprenticeship some of my mates who went into unskilled/labouring jobs were earning twice as much as me, but 4 years later when I got my quals i was on twice as much as some of them

i presume you lived with parents ?

if not how was your bills to pay as not everyone can live with parents

being on an aprenticeship and having all the bills just isnt going to cut it no matter what anyone says your crippled before you start a job

 

[stuvy]

I found that, when I left school and went into an apprenticeship some of my mates who went into unskilled/labouring jobs were earning twice as much as me, but 4 years later when I got my quals i was on twice as much as some of them

Same here

I had an evening job in the pub to pay for my beer and fun money

Worked Saturday for cash at the garage I trained in

Lived at home, paid decent money to my parents and had a few cars and bikes before my mates had mostly passed their tests

 

[stuvy]

I think that does depend on a lot of factors. We went to the open days at Hereford Group Training with our kids. It is a organisation set up by a group of companies who realised they were getting short of suitable new staff. Nobody there gets a free ride, they have to clock in every day and they have to get selected by an employer but quite a few of the companies pay over the odds when they get good apprentices so that they stay. When we first went there a couple of years back they had apprentices in training there who were on £280/week because their companies topped up the wages.

I do agree that many things have got really easy in the world and people expect quick results, you've only got to look at any Facebook group, car groups seem really bad, people asking question because it's easy than just opening the owners manual in the glove box.

That’s about what the current apprentice is on at my place

I encouraged him to get a second evening job so he can spend more on his car

 

[armalites]

I had an evening job in the pub to pay for my beer and fun money

Worked Saturday for cash at the garage I trained in

Lived at home, paid decent money to my parents and had a few cars and bikes before my mates had mostly passed their tests

I do think that is one thing that has changed, the amount of effort people expect to put in to get results. When you see people who are doing alright they aren't the people who are saying "I shouldn't need to work Saturdays".

I lived on a farm as a kid because my dad was stockman/farm manager which is about as close to a 24/7 job as you get other than being a parent. My dad has always said it's funny how people who don't want to work evenings/weekends still expect nurses/doctors/hospitality staff to be working.

 

[addjunkie]

I don't agree with that as a general reason. Most of the trades I have known over the last 20 years or so don't have apprentices because of the cost to them and the way labour laws are set up to protect an employee but only actually work for large employers. For a one man band having an employed apprentice not only adds considerably to the cost of doing business but also reduces productivity. Anyone doing so finds that they are no longer competitive as customers don't want to pay a higher price for a job compared to a single tradesman.

As with so many things the short term view has landed us in this position, and that view is held by everyone from the gov't down to Mrs Jones wanting a job done. Yet no one wants to pay the extra involved in starting to put it right.

Nail on head. My father had TV shops, he employed 8 TV engineers, before tvs became throw away. Always had at least one apprentice. Employed and did day release. Then the educationalist said block release was better. So he was expected to pay apprentice for a year while at school full time, no government assistance. He stopped taking on apprentices, it was about the time the writing was on the wall and TVs were becoming throw away.

Now Ilife rurally. None of the builders etc take apprentices, too expensive. Little help, lots of hassel. When you mention it along the lines of when your past it and need a skilled man there wont be any. Do t care, not my problem, cant afford to hire one!

 

[stuvy]

Nail on head. My father had TV shops, he employed 8 TV engineers, before tvs became throw away. Always had at least one apprentice. Employed and did day release. Then the educationalist said block release was better. So he was expected to pay apprentice for a year while at school full time, no government assistance. He stopped taking on apprentices, it was about the time the writing was on the wall and TVs were becoming throw away.

Now Ilife rurally. None of the builders etc take apprentices, too expensive. Little help, lots of hassel. When you mention it along the lines of when your past it and need a skilled man there wont be any. Do t care, not my problem, cant afford to hire one!

Exactly that

To much paperwork to have one

All the trade lads that I drink with have an ‘unskilled’ labourer that’s normally on a decent wage with a van and gets the first round or two paid for them as an extra bonus

 

[slim_boy_fat]

and teach the younger ones there

Who, with the odd exception, can't wait to move to the mainland.

 

[Cato]

I found that, when I left school and went into an apprenticeship some of my mates who went into unskilled/labouring jobs were earning twice as much as me, but 4 years later when I got my quals i was on twice as much as some of them

Same for me. First year (1983) was £25:00 a week, second year it went up to a bit over £100:00 but I could do overtime. Mates who left school and went labouring etc were on £150 - £200 year one and then up a bit but small yearly increments and they were at the mercy of recessions and redundancies with the ebb and flo of the economy. When I finished my apprenticeship I was able to work anywhere in the world and I haven't been out of work a day since.

 

[gaz1]

Who, with the odd exception, can't wait to move to the mainland.

that true as not much there for them, but thats island life for you

better job prospects on the mainland with better pay also better to be behind a desk sat on your backside with computers or other jobs that involve that sort of thing

the only problem is the island sufferes as it will become a ghost town or very little to do with trades as they have all left

so then costs alot to get anyone out

 

[addjunkie]

that true as not much there for them, but thats island life for you

better job prospects on the mainland with better pay also better to be behind a desk sat on your backside with computers or other jobs that involve that sort of thing

the only problem is the island sufferes as it will become a ghost town or very little to do with trades as they have all left

so then costs alot to get anyone out

Over the years Ive worked with many many islanders, some do migrate to the big city life, but they are always islanders and many do migrate back in time. Im sure our Shetland and Orkney contingent would agree. Guess it also depends on the opportunities going around at the time and also education levels. No different to very rural areas really. Many leave rural areas after university, or join the forces etc to see if the grass is greener on the otherside!

 

[MetalMonkey]

There are apprenticeships and apprenticeships - we were encouraged to take on one at £2.70 p/h by a local college, despite full knowledge there was no job for them at the end.
Basically just encouraged to use them as cheap labour – I did what I could for him but essentially it was a ****-take. So you can’t really blame people for shying away from them. Good quality apprenticeships are far and few between.

There are so many hurdles now in trying to get people in to work, so many superfluous bits of paper. Can’t get a job without a specific bit of paper, can’t get the bit of paper unless you already hold the job. Far too many utterly worthless training courses, just designed to make training providers money.

Half the time the difference in pay between minimum wage and fully qualified is a couple of quid an hour and a boat load of hassle, which does nothing to encourage people to put the effort in to get skilled.
Hardly surprisingly people don't want to bother - I’d hate to be a youngster trying to navigate all that BS today.


I think the idea of a skillsexchange (definitely needs some strategically placed hyphens ) is a nice idea, but I can't help think of some of the useless people I've encountered over the years - after an hour of their time I'd probably be worse off.....

 

[stuvy]

There are apprenticeships and apprenticeships - we were encouraged to take on one at £2.70 p/h by a local college, despite full knowledge there was no job for them at the end.
Basically just encouraged to use them as cheap labour – I did what I could for him but essentially it was a ****-take. So you can’t really blame people for shying away from them. Good quality apprenticeships are far and few between.

There are so many hurdles now in trying to get people in to work, so many superfluous bits of paper. Can’t get a job without a specific bit of paper, can’t get the bit of paper unless you already hold the job. Far too many utterly worthless training courses, just designed to make training providers money.

Half the time the difference in pay between minimum wage and fully qualified is a couple of quid an hour and a boat load of hassle, which does nothing to encourage people to put the effort in to get skilled.
Hardly surprisingly people don't want to bother - I’d hate to be a youngster trying to navigate all that BS today.


I think the idea of a skillsexchange (definitely needs some strategically placed hyphens ) is a nice idea, but I can't help think of some of the useless people I've encountered over the years - after an hour of their time I'd probably be worse off.....

Strange you say apprenticeships and apprenticeships

An exs niece took an apprenticeship as an air stewardess

I’m not knocking it but as you said it’s for cheap slave labour as opposed to a trainee/junior position

 

[Richiew]

I interviewed one young lad (Benefits related). Apprentice sandwich maker, at Subway. Poor lad. Sucked in something rotten there.

This has gone horribly off topic. Again.

 

[Cato]

It's that 'sell more of everything' approach which spread to training and education. When things reach the point where you can do an apprenticeship in stewardessing or a degree in kitchen design it's time to start again IMHO.

 

[Richiew]

I've seen an apprentice badge on some lass on the checkout at Aldi not too long back. People should be learning skilled trades, but it keeps people off the NEET register, I suppose.

Not in Employment, Education or Training.

 

[stuvy]

I've seen an apprentice badge on some lass on the checkout at Aldi not too long back. People should be learning skilled trades, but it keeps people off the NEET register, I suppose.

Not in Employment, Education or Training.

Sad state of affairs when they put more weight on stats then peoples futures

 

[Richiew]

Stores Apprenticeship

www.aldirecruitment.co.uk

not making it up, sadly.

 

[Bornfree]

The company I work for have been trying to get me to have an apprentice for 10 years. I tell them I've worked alone for 30 years and nothings going to change that.

 

[maroon]

Bartering would be a good way to benefit each other and avoid taxes and everyone else who adds nothing to the process taking their skim off it even banks charging a few percent here or there for payments etc all add up and take money away.

All the chemical plants around here swap chemicals between them, if there's no money involved no tax to be paid. We're talking hundreds of tonnes worth here. Not just a bottle of vinegar. They must save billions.