Any Coffee Nerds on the forum?

[TEO]

@Jelly_Sheffield - as you have probably realised there are as many answers as there are contributors. I’ve been an avid coffee brewer for years and have spent much time chasing the perfect brew. Ultimately it comes down to what like. If you like it, it’s the right way. The only advice it would offer is to buy whole beans and grind them yourself rather than buy ground coffee. The usable life of ground coffee is measured in minutes as opposed to months for beans. Good luck with your quest.

A bit like sharpening systems for plane irons & chisels, a life-long quest. Having said which I've been using the latest method for 15 yrs & I'll probably stick with it.

 

[TEO]

Has anyone tried the "Cowboy" method of coffee making ?
I've been chasing the perfect coffee for years and am beginning to think that it must be at the end of a Rainbow as just when I think I have found it I think " nearly but not quite." What i find strange is when I make some for visitors they always comment on how good it is ,despite my telling them to be honest , while I sit there and think "not quite".

Only in desperation.
Cpl of mates & I spent a day & ½ hiking into a climbing spot; made camp only to find that we'd left the coffee pot
Nearly scuppered the whole trip,

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

A bit like sharpening systems for plane irons & chisels, a life-long quest. Having said which I've been using the latest method for 15 yrs & I'll probably stick with it.

So find something that works for you, stick to it, and ignore all the expensive gimmicky BS?



My grandfather taught me to sharpen woodworking tools by hand with a convex bevel, based on how my great grandfather taught him, works fantastic...

But guaranteed to cause hours of controversy if you mention it on a woodworking forum!

 

[GrahamGKD]

I recently got a little areopress gadget to make a quick single coffee for myself. I will take it camping too.
I grind my own beans too.

There is a worthwhile upgrade to the Aeropress to replace the paper filters with a metal one - ours is a Fellow Prisma, although someone told me that Aeropress do one themselves now. We also have a neat little hand grinder called an Aergrind that fits inside the plunger of the Aeropress. As you say - great for camping and general trips away.

 

[123hotchef]

There is a worthwhile upgrade to the Aeropress to replace the paper filters with a metal one - ours is a Fellow Prisma, although someone told me that Aeropress do one themselves now. We also have a neat little hand grinder called an Aergrind that fits inside the plunger of the Aeropress. As you say - great for camping and general trips away.

I have 2 metal filers actually, I got those off ammazon a fine and a extra fine, the hand grinder could be a good thing for camping. What is it like, how does it perform?

 

[redlig]

But are the beans roasted between the thighs of hill-maidens on the sunny side of the hill?

They were kidnapped by the Cuba's to hand roll cigars.

 

[redlig]

A mate is really into his coffee, and he says it's a decent coffee.
I never drink the stuff, but I do like to watch how brand snobbery clouds peoples judgements.

As in most things nowadays.

 

[redlig]

I had been using a Krupps bean-to-cup machine for some years before it sprung a leak a few months ago (I've not got round to stripping it down yet to identify the culprit).

Anyway, turns out I"m quite happy with instant. I use one of the stronger Nescafé ones and only takes a minute to make.

I watched a programme recently about a guy who had set up an "artisan" coffee shop for commuters and was bemoaning the fact most of his customers didn't appreciate the nuances of his bean and roasting choices. It didn't seem to register with him that most people just want a caffeine hit on the way to work.

I view coffee connoisseurs a bit like the high-end hifi nerds - as long as they're otherwise decent company, I'll politely excuse myself whilst they discuss their artisan roasting preferences / audiophile specs amongst themselves.

A bit like wine or even beer aficionado's .
I gave a mate a bottle of red a few weeks ago and he said later " not at all bad for a 2022 Burgundy ." Bugger I only gave it to him because I thought that 2022 was the use by date and wanted to get shot before it blew up.

 

[Sapre]

Gaggia Classic - makes a decent esspresso/cappucino, not cheap but used daily it pays back in no time especially since it has a big following and second hand market. I have a spare machine whichnim trying to mod/improve, long term project

As mentioned a good grinder is important too, didnt believe it until i tried…

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Gaggia Classic - makes a decent esspresso/cappucino, not cheap but used daily it pays back in no time especially since it has a big following and second hand market. I have a spare machine whichnim trying to mod/improve, long term project

As mentioned a good grinder is important too, didnt believe it until i tried…

I got a Gaggia Coffee Deluxe, which as far as I can tell is a Classic without the three way solenoid valve.

Supposedly you can upgrade it to get similar performance by fitting an OPV, but given I could buy a commercial three-phase espresso maker for the same price as the upgrade valve, if I get that deep into coffee that feels like the obvious choice of upgrade (for someone who has 3-phase and isn't averse to going full send with these things).

 

[Sapre]

I got a Gaggia Coffee Deluxe, which as far as I can tell is a Classic without the three way solenoid valve.

Supposedly you can upgrade it to get similar performance by fitting an OPV, but given I could buy a commercial three-phase espresso maker for the same price as the upgrade valve, if I get that deep into coffee that feels like the obvious choice of upgrade (for someone who has 3-phase and isn't averse to going full send with these things).

My new gaggia classic has the solenoid valve but the old one doesnt. As far as i know the reason for the valve is to release pressure after a brew, without it you could just wait a few minutes before removing the portafilter and that would achieve the same thing..

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

My new gaggia classic has the solenoid valve but the old one doesnt. As far as i know the reason for the valve is to release pressure after a brew, without it you could just wait a few minutes before removing the portafilter and that would achieve the same thing..

Ostensibly three way solenoid valves also contains a post "boiler" pressure control valve mechanism which ensures that the group head is maintained at a constant pressure.

I say ostensibly because:
- I learned it online,
- That seems like an incredibly complicated way to implement that compared to a separate PCV,
- For a given flow rate, back pressure in the group head is governed by the void fraction of the bed of grounds, which is a function of particle size and packing, so a PCV can only set an upper pressure limit.


In any case it produced a delicious Cafe Cubano and Cafe Bonbon this morning, no complaints there.

 

[123hotchef]

There is a worthwhile upgrade to the Aeropress to replace the paper filters with a metal one - ours is a Fellow Prisma, although someone told me that Aeropress do one themselves now. We also have a neat little hand grinder called an Aergrind that fits inside the plunger of the Aeropress. As you say - great for camping and general trips away.

I just ordered a Aergrind after reading up on them and looking at reviews ect. They look like a great addition! I even splashed out for the tarp kitbag! sucker I know but it does look nice.

 

[GrahamGKD]

I have 2 metal filers actually, I got those off ammazon a fine and a extra fine, the hand grinder could be a good thing for camping. What is it like, how does it perform?

It works very well - you can dial up the coarseness of the grind (and leave that set once you are happy with it). It takes a little while of hand cranking (handle not shown in pictures) - if making 2 or 3 coffees I leave one brewing in the Aeropress while I grind for the next. It was made in Scotland by Knock - who I see have now been taken over but still make the same grinder in Scotland.

..... just notice your post to say you ordered one - well done - I hope you will be happy with it.

 

[bump]

I like my Gaggia Classic, had it since 2009. It's needed a few wear and tear parts in the intervening 16 years. All were easily available and reasonably priced. Means it keeps going and doesn't end up as landfill.

 

[123hotchef]

View attachment 489578View attachment 489579View attachment 489581
It works very well - you can dial up the coarseness of the grind (and leave that set once you are happy with it). It takes a little while of hand cranking (handle not shown in pictures) - if making 2 or 3 coffees I leave one brewing in the Aeropress while I grind for the next. It was made in Scotland by Knock - who I see have now been taken over but still make the same grinder in Scotland.

..... just notice your post to say you ordered one - well done - I hope you will be happy with it.

it looks great. It is normally only me and the mrs when we go camping, I have the plug in grinder in the kitchen. I am looking forward to using it. I will use it at home for the 2 or us.

 

[TEO]

Is there really a worthwhile difference in these esspresso machines? The Delongi Dedica roughly £150, the Sage Bambino at least £100 on top of that & then the sky's the limit..... WTAF?

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Is there really a worthwhile difference in these esspresso machines? The Delongi Dedica roughly £150, the Sage Bambino at least £100 on top of that & then the sky's the limit..... WTAF?

I can share what I learned whilst deciding which second hand espresso machine to bid on...

So far as I could work out, you would probably need to spend around £1200 to get a machine which produced noticeably better coffee than you could with a £150 machine and some practice.

Even then "noticeably better" is chasing the same diminishing returns that audiophiles do with hi-fi equipment.


Most espresso machines are the automatic type using either a reciprocating pump or steam pressure to force the water through:

- the cheapest pump type machines lack some of the quality of life/maintainability features of the mid range ones.

- the mid-range pump type machines have those features.

- top end pump type machines tend to have slightly more complex systems to control the water pressure/temperature to give a more consistent performance.

- boiler type machines are the gold standard for both performance and maintainability/lifespan.

"Lever type" machines are just a water heater with a lever on top to generate the pressure (either directly relying on the user's skill to get the pressure right, or by compressing a spring that can be set to a specific pressure).

- These have a reputation for producing the very best coffee possible in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.

- But are rather expensive for what they are, because it's a niche market.

- Price wise they fit between the top end pump type machines, and boiler type machines.

- Due to the simple design they will last forever with little more than regular cleaning.


However:

- the lifespan, repairability and resale value of all machines is related more to specific brands that are well supported by the coffee community than the purchase price.

- If you're handy it's possible to retrofit some of the very cheap pump machines to have the features of the top-end pump machines (or better) for less than the price difference between a cheap and mid-range one. There's whole forums of people doing this to certain brands.

- Almost all boiler type machines are commercial sized and need a substantial electrical hook-up (sometimes three phase), a cold water feed, and a drain connection as they rely on maintaining pressurised steam in an actual boiler to function.

- Lever type machines are comparatively high-skill to operate well.

- Lever type machines can't actually produce coffee very fast, with several of the "gold standard" direct lever machines lacking enough thermal capacity to heat enough water for more than 4 cups of espresso back to back before needing to reheat for 10+ minutes. (Fine for producing espresso shots for afficionados, but a nightmare if three guests come round and all ask for a cappuccino/flat white/americano).


I bought the cheapest example of the cheapest model of Gaggia, knowing it's a reasonably well liked model of a respected brand (by other coffee nerds). So if I upgrade it or decide I can't justify the space, I won't lose my shirt selling it to someone else just getting into fancy coffee.

 

[redlig]

I can share what I learned whilst deciding which second hand espresso machine to bid on...

So far as I could work out, you would probably need to spend around £1200 to get a machine which produced noticeably better coffee than you could with a £150 machine and some practice.

Even then "noticeably better" is chasing the same diminishing returns that audiophiles do with hi-fi equipment.


Most espresso machines are the automatic type using either a reciprocating pump or steam pressure to force the water through:

- the cheapest pump type machines lack some of the quality of life/maintainability features of the mid range ones.

- the mid-range pump type machines have those features.

- top end pump type machines tend to have slightly more complex systems to control the water pressure/temperature to give a more consistent performance.

- boiler type machines are the gold standard for both performance and maintainability/lifespan.

"Lever type" machines are just a water heater with a lever on top to generate the pressure (either directly relying on the user's skill to get the pressure right, or by compressing a spring that can be set to a specific pressure).

- These have a reputation for producing the very best coffee possible in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.

- But are rather expensive for what they are, because it's a niche market.

- Price wise they fit between the top end pump type machines, and boiler type machines.

- Due to the simple design they will last forever with little more than regular cleaning.


However:

- the lifespan, repairability and resale value of all machines is related more to specific brands that are well supported by the coffee community than the purchase price.

- If you're handy it's possible to retrofit some of the very cheap pump machines to have the features of the top-end pump machines (or better) for less than the price difference between a cheap and mid-range one. There's whole forums of people doing this to certain brands.

- Almost all boiler type machines are commercial sized and need a substantial electrical hook-up (sometimes three phase), a cold water feed, and a drain connection as they rely on maintaining pressurised steam in an actual boiler to function.

- Lever type machines are comparatively high-skill to operate well.

- Lever type machines can't actually produce coffee very fast, with several of the "gold standard" direct lever machines lacking enough thermal capacity to heat enough water for more than 4 cups of espresso back to back before needing to reheat for 10+ minutes. (Fine for producing espresso shots for afficionados, but a nightmare if three guests come round and all ask for a cappuccino/flat white/americano).


I bought the cheapest example of the cheapest model of Gaggia, knowing it's a reasonably well liked model of a respected brand (by other coffee nerds). So if I upgrade it or decide I can't justify the space, I won't lose my shirt selling it to someone else just getting into fancy coffee.

Interesting !
Anyone who visits me and asks for a cappuccino/flat white/americano gets a cup of warm water , spoon full of pound shops cheap brown dust, a dollop of evap , a couple of sugar cubes and a whisk and told get on with it.

 

[TEO]

I can share what I learned whilst deciding which second hand espresso machine to bid on...

So far as I could work out, you would probably need to spend around £1200 to get a machine which produced noticeably better coffee than you could with a £150 machine and some practice.

Even then "noticeably better" is chasing the same diminishing returns that audiophiles do with hi-fi equipment.


Most espresso machines are the automatic type using either a reciprocating pump or steam pressure to force the water through:

- the cheapest pump type machines lack some of the quality of life/maintainability features of the mid range ones.

- the mid-range pump type machines have those features.

- top end pump type machines tend to have slightly more complex systems to control the water pressure/temperature to give a more consistent performance.

- boiler type machines are the gold standard for both performance and maintainability/lifespan.

"Lever type" machines are just a water heater with a lever on top to generate the pressure (either directly relying on the user's skill to get the pressure right, or by compressing a spring that can be set to a specific pressure).

- These have a reputation for producing the very best coffee possible in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.

- But are rather expensive for what they are, because it's a niche market.

- Price wise they fit between the top end pump type machines, and boiler type machines.

- Due to the simple design they will last forever with little more than regular cleaning.


However:

- the lifespan, repairability and resale value of all machines is related more to specific brands that are well supported by the coffee community than the purchase price.

- If you're handy it's possible to retrofit some of the very cheap pump machines to have the features of the top-end pump machines (or better) for less than the price difference between a cheap and mid-range one. There's whole forums of people doing this to certain brands.

- Almost all boiler type machines are commercial sized and need a substantial electrical hook-up (sometimes three phase), a cold water feed, and a drain connection as they rely on maintaining pressurised steam in an actual boiler to function.

- Lever type machines are comparatively high-skill to operate well.

- Lever type machines can't actually produce coffee very fast, with several of the "gold standard" direct lever machines lacking enough thermal capacity to heat enough water for more than 4 cups of espresso back to back before needing to reheat for 10+ minutes. (Fine for producing espresso shots for afficionados, but a nightmare if three guests come round and all ask for a cappuccino/flat white/americano).


I bought the cheapest example of the cheapest model of Gaggia, knowing it's a reasonably well liked model of a respected brand (by other coffee nerds). So if I upgrade it or decide I can't justify the space, I won't lose my shirt selling it to someone else just getting into fancy coffee.

That's a really useful, comprehensive reply thanks.
I would definitely be buying second hand.
Is yours one of the Evo range of Gaggia?
Did you find a good reasonably priced mill?
Cheers