Any Coffee Nerds on the forum?

[Jelly_Sheffield]

That's a really useful, comprehensive reply thanks.
I would definitely be buying second hand.
Is yours one of the Evo range of Gaggia?
Did you find a good reasonably priced mill?
Cheers

Mine is a Coffee Deluxe, basically the same as an early Classic in a different case, sold after they upgraded the Classic model.

I already had a cheap and cheerful burr mill from Amazon that works well, it's hand cranked, but has a hex that you can put a cordless drill on.

I also got a distributor as it does make a difference to how well it tamps down...

Made my own tamper out of scrap stainless on the lathe but it would probably have been cheaper to buy one of those too.

Edit:
I should have mentioned what the upgrades people commonly talk about making are:

- adding a PID temperature controller for the "boiler" to improve the consistency of the water temperature.

- adding an aftermarket adjustable Pressure Control Valve between the pump and the boiler to fine tune the water pressure.

- adding a pressure gauge that will show the actual pressure in the group-head (which is less common as it requires rather more messing about, and only makes sense if you have fitted an adjustable PCV installed so you can adjust without disassembling the machine for access).

 

[Morris]

I was wrong. It's not Mumsnet, it's some sort of hipster retreat

 

[redlig]

Mine is a Coffee Deluxe, basically the same as an early Classic in a different case, sold after they upgraded the Classic model.

I already had a cheap and cheerful burr mill from Amazon that works well, it's hand cranked, but has a hex that you can put a cordless drill on.

I also got a distributor as it does make a difference to how well it tamps down...

Made my own tamper out of scrap stainless on the lathe but it would probably have been cheaper to buy one of those too.

Edit:
I should have mentioned what the upgrades people commonly talk about making are:

- adding a PID temperature controller for the "boiler" to improve the consistency of the water temperature.

- adding an aftermarket adjustable Pressure Control Valve between the pump and the boiler to fine tune the water pressure.

- adding a pressure gauge that will show the actual pressure in the group-head (which is less common as it requires rather more messing about, and only makes sense if you have fitted an adjustable PCV installed so you can adjust without disassembling the machine for access).

You will never be bored with a Lathe. My tamper downer and grinder adjuster . Nice easy jobs on a wet Sunday.

 

[redlig]

I was wrong. It's not Mumsnet, it's some sort of hipster retreat

Tea drinker ?

 

[Morris]

Tea drinker ?

Yes.
Also part time **** taker
Absolutely no offense meant or intended.

 

[Dragnet]

Nerds make a big fuss about burr grinders. I have a friend in London whose coffee machine cost more than I see in a year. Personally, my reverse snobbery revels in my Spong grinders, which are burrs and can cost nothing. I found one in a scrap metal pile which cleaned up nicely, another with no handle I repaired and gave away, then when the family got interested I found a bigger one, and got a chap in Sheffield to spin a new brass bowl (they're often missing). Coarseness is altered by simply tightening the thumbscrew on the back; no electricity required and you can make endless jokes about 'the daily grind'...

In the long term I'm always on the lookout for a 1920s-ish manual espresso maker. None of this computerised nonsense, just a tank to fill with hot water and a big brass lever.

 

[Gareth J]

Interesting stuff.

I'm not a very picky coffee person but have in the last few years switched from not cheap instant to middle of the road filter coffee in a cafetiere and am pleased with the difference. Generally only have one cup a day, first thing and prep has got to fit in around everything. Kind of like Cortado consistency. Don't really like instant now.

The take home for me, from this thread, is that the next most valuable thing to consider is freshly ground and that other prep work is diminishing returns/difficult to justify gadgetry/personal taste.

However, I have on occasion, bought fresh ground from Farrers who grind it into your bag there and then. However I've not discerned anything over and above the supermarkets usual branded offerings.

I could spare the time to fit some ye olde grinder gadget to the kitchen wall and incorporate that into the morning routine if it was worth it but I suspect I'm not discerning enough to warrant the difference in taste vs extra faff.

I also really like Turkish coffee

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Nerds make a big fuss about burr grinders. I have a friend in London whose coffee machine cost more than I see in a year. Personally, my reverse snobbery revels in my Spong grinders, which are burrs and can cost nothing. I found one in a scrap metal pile which cleaned up nicely, another with no handle I repaired and gave away, then when the family got interested I found a bigger one, and got a chap in Sheffield to spin a new brass bowl (they're often missing). Coarseness is altered by simply tightening the thumbscrew on the back; no electricity required and you can make endless jokes about 'the daily grind'...

The Burr grinders are undoubtedly better at grinding to a uniform particle size compared to blade type, from an engineering standpoint.

I am perfectly happy with a hand crank grinder, and your "rescues" look great!

In the long term I'm always on the lookout for a 1920s-ish manual espresso maker. None of this computerised nonsense, just a tank to fill with hot water and a big brass lever.

I don't think it would be a particularly difficult project to build (for home use) if you follow the model engineering build and hydrotest principles on the boiler.

A complete scratch build including making your own group-head would have some awkward machining, but that's part of the fun.

I do however have too many projects to contemplate myself right now.

 

[jmp49]

Have to say, seeing the depth of replies, I'm happy I won the krupps with grinder adjustment and strength controls to beboop, because for me life is too short to chase that 10% more advantage & I value that I just tip beans in the top, clean the detachable milk spout out after use and empty the grind bin when it says its needed. I have had to blow it out with air when it started misbehaving, and a mass of ground coffee was stuck in the chutes and vents, but since then its been good.
My morning routine is a long coffee out of it to wake up, then 2-3 during the day from it & wife is similar, daughter has lattes quite often too and son drives to work with a latte to drink on arrival. 4 years so far. It'll break eventually but I'll just get another then. The shed ones hardly get used as I also drink(a lot of) tea, but thats just a normal typhoo teabag in a mug with hot water splashed on it too.
We'll be doing ninja ice cream makers vs artisanal hand turned stainless bowls made by virgins on a flat belt spinning lathe at this rate though.

 

[redlig]

Yes.
Also part time **** taker
Absolutely no offense meant or intended.

From a full time **** taker to a mere amateur ,no offence taken.

How long exactly do you have to drown those mice shaped bags to get a cup of tea ? Presumably until they are dead.

 

[redlig]

Interesting stuff.

I'm not a very picky coffee person but have in the last few years switched from not cheap instant to middle of the road filter coffee in a cafetiere and am pleased with the difference. Generally only have one cup a day, first thing and prep has got to fit in around everything. Kind of like Cortado consistency. Don't really like instant now.

The take home for me, from this thread, is that the next most valuable thing to consider is freshly ground and that other prep work is diminishing returns/difficult to justify gadgetry/personal taste.

However, I have on occasion, bought fresh ground from Farrers who grind it into your bag there and then. However I've not discerned anything over and above the supermarkets usual branded offerings.

I could spare the time to fit some ye olde grinder gadget to the kitchen wall and incorporate that into the morning routine if it was worth it but I suspect I'm not discerning enough to warrant the difference in taste vs extra faff.

I also really like Turkish coffee

Yea olde grinder does count towards your 5 a day exercise routine.

 

[redlig]

Have to say, seeing the depth of replies, I'm happy I won the krupps with grinder adjustment and strength controls to beboop, because for me life is too short to chase that 10% more advantage & I value that I just tip beans in the top, clean the detachable milk spout out after use and empty the grind bin when it says its needed. I have had to blow it out with air when it started misbehaving, and a mass of ground coffee was stuck in the chutes and vents, but since then its been good.
My morning routine is a long coffee out of it to wake up, then 2-3 during the day from it & wife is similar, daughter has lattes quite often too and son drives to work with a latte to drink on arrival. 4 years so far. It'll break eventually but I'll just get another then. The shed ones hardly get used as I also drink(a lot of) tea, but thats just a normal typhoo teabag in a mug with hot water splashed on it too.
We'll be doing ninja ice cream makers vs artisanal hand turned stainless bowls made by virgins on a flat belt spinning lathe at this rate though.

Stainless steel bowls are 10 a penny it's the virgins that seem in short supply.

 

[Morris]

Stainless steel bowls are 10 a penny it's the virgins that seem in short supply. impossible to find.

FTFY

 

[Morris]

From a full time **** taker to a mere amateur ,no offence taken.

How long exactly do you have to drown those mice shaped bags to get a cup of tea ? Presumably until they are dead.

We buy non-sentient tea bags and brew for 320 seconds in a pot hand formed by Shaolin monks. Nothing else is acceptable.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

We buy non-sentient tea bags and brew for 320 seconds in a pot hand formed by Shaolin monks. Nothing else is acceptable.

BS 6008:1980 Method for preparation of a liquor of tea is very clear that tea is brewed for 360 seconds... I can't believe that you'd be skimping on such critical matters.

(And no, I'm not joking there really is a British Standard for making tea).

 

[bump]

There's also a relevant HTTP status code

 

[Morris]

BS 6008:1980 Method for preparation of a liquor of tea is very clear that tea is brewed for 360 seconds... I can't believe that you'd be skimping on such critical matters.

(And no, I'm not joking there really is a British Standard for making tea).

British Standard is for loose leaf tea, no mention of dead mouse bags or their ilk.
No BS for making coffee, obviously not important enough.
All very of course.

 

[TEO]

Yes.
Also part time **** taker
Absolutely no offense meant or intended.

Let me just park my Penny-farthing & wax my moustache before I reply with - none taken

 

[GrahamGKD]

I can share what I learned whilst deciding which second hand espresso machine to bid on...

So far as I could work out, you would probably need to spend around £1200 to get a machine which produced noticeably better coffee than you could with a £150 machine and some practice.

Even then "noticeably better" is chasing the same diminishing returns that audiophiles do with hi-fi equipment.


Most espresso machines are the automatic type using either a reciprocating pump or steam pressure to force the water through:

- the cheapest pump type machines lack some of the quality of life/maintainability features of the mid range ones.

- the mid-range pump type machines have those features.

- top end pump type machines tend to have slightly more complex systems to control the water pressure/temperature to give a more consistent performance.

- boiler type machines are the gold standard for both performance and maintainability/lifespan.

"Lever type" machines are just a water heater with a lever on top to generate the pressure (either directly relying on the user's skill to get the pressure right, or by compressing a spring that can be set to a specific pressure).

- These have a reputation for producing the very best coffee possible in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing.

- But are rather expensive for what they are, because it's a niche market.

- Price wise they fit between the top end pump type machines, and boiler type machines.

- Due to the simple design they will last forever with little more than regular cleaning.


However:

- the lifespan, repairability and resale value of all machines is related more to specific brands that are well supported by the coffee community than the purchase price.

- If you're handy it's possible to retrofit some of the very cheap pump machines to have the features of the top-end pump machines (or better) for less than the price difference between a cheap and mid-range one. There's whole forums of people doing this to certain brands.

- Almost all boiler type machines are commercial sized and need a substantial electrical hook-up (sometimes three phase), a cold water feed, and a drain connection as they rely on maintaining pressurised steam in an actual boiler to function.

- Lever type machines are comparatively high-skill to operate well.

- Lever type machines can't actually produce coffee very fast, with several of the "gold standard" direct lever machines lacking enough thermal capacity to heat enough water for more than 4 cups of espresso back to back before needing to reheat for 10+ minutes. (Fine for producing espresso shots for afficionados, but a nightmare if three guests come round and all ask for a cappuccino/flat white/americano).


I bought the cheapest example of the cheapest model of Gaggia, knowing it's a reasonably well liked model of a respected brand (by other coffee nerds). So if I upgrade it or decide I can't justify the space, I won't lose my shirt selling it to someone else just getting into fancy coffee.

High end machines have rotary pumps (like the ones in the machines in Costa / Nero and the like) - it is more satisfying listening to a gentle hum rather than the crude buzz you get from a vibe pump. Machines wiith rotatry pumps are expensive and tend to be bigger, since the pumps are expensive and physically bigger.

Higher end machines also tend to be dual boiler - you get separate boilers for the brew group and steaming.

Most decent machines are controlled by a PID (Proportional Integral Derivative) which keeps the brew temperature constant. PIDs are often configurable.

A lot of good home coffee machines are built around an E61 group - which is a thing of beauty!

 

[Craigrob]

I'm a V60 filter coffee person rather than espresso but consistency is the key to both. To this end I got a set of electronic scales which lets you weigh the grinds. This way you can add or subtract a gram which can make a huge difference. And that's why a decent burr grinder is improtant. mine is a £100 wilfa which is good enough for me! A YouToober called James Hoffman (owns Square Mile coffee too) has a very good series on espresso & gives start points for a good brew. He can get VERY nerdy indeed but does at least acknowledge that he's getting to nerdy. But his starter videos are very useful if you're looking to get into it.