Another one bites the dust!

[malcolm]

For the VAT cut I found a funny video. Don't agree entirely with the content but it starts with a fun point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtIjgsxe-jM Ultimately I'd be more inclined to spend money if I had some income. VAT cut didn't really impact me.

There is plenty of moaning we could do in this thread, and I deleted my own essay on the subject. Could be less depressing to step past that and look at the potential positives which could help members who are hit in the coming months.

Anyone involved in repairs should do well. Friend in the motor repair trade says people tend to save money on services so he has plenty of work in the major repairs that follow.

Small operators could benefit too - low overheads make them less susceptible to declines, and also the larger companies will be going bust so there's cheap workforce and a gap to fill in the market for when things get better.

 

[daf45]

I ran a small removals business for ten years - been really feeling the pinch for the last two of them. The housing market is very stagnant in Cambridge (not as bad as some other areas i'm lead to believe) and rising operating costs (mainly fuel) meant we were 'getting it' from both ends.

Unfortunately I dont belive it is the media painting a gloomy picture or driving us into a recession this time. In fact I think if you speak to anyone in small builders / transport / estate agents (i know, i know, you wont feel for them) they will all tell you they've been feeling it for quite some time. Northern Rock was last Sept - 15 months ago and that didn't happen over night!

Meanwhile - the govt continue to encourage us to borrow and spend to 'prevent us going into a deep and long lasting recession'... Haven't heard such madness since Mrs T.

 

[Drains]

Wyn - you didn't happen to hear an interview on Radio 4 'Today' prog this morning, did you?
It was about how much it costs the UK to fund the pensions of the 'public sector'. I lost count of how many noughts there were in it.
I'll see if there's a BBC link for it.

All public sector employees (especially the senior ones.. that's YOU, Mr Chief Constable of wherever you like), should get.... lets say... 5 years of retirement (most of then started watching the clock by the time they were 35, so make that 2, as they've done bugger all since then).

And at 67/62.... it's up against the wall! Cos i'm ******** if i'm paying for you!

It used to be the principal in public service that you'd get a middling wage and a good pension. Now they're all (Cooncils, Gov't, nurses etc etc), getting walloping salaries as well as fantastic pensions. And any of them who disagree with this, go and get yourselves a real job, and then tell me what it's like!

-------

To continue the thread theme - we're doing ok doing R and D in cutting-edge energy generation, and other things. However a company we share a building with, who sort of "share" our technology, have been told to reduce their budgets. We're also looking for big investors in a new project and they're proving hard to convince at the mo. Still safer than than the banks though.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Don't know what you're complaining about. Our problems have all been solved by the 2.5% VAT cut......

Yep, we're all basking in our new-found wealth

 

[runnach]

Interesting replies, some pro welding members, business as usual (and long may this continue) others working in fab/weld and other areas, not looking positive at all! Funny & horrible old world at times, boom to gloom in a fairly rapid time frame.

Strange how the sector that brought all this upon us manage to be bailed out with our money! Banks have been responsible for many business's buckling, not given them much of a chance to ride their particular storm, banks just pull the plug, and sod the aftermath to all concerned.

Re: Malcolm's question of how do we support the unfortunate ones, I suppose the individual/s will have to look at their strengths and weakness's, is there a niche to be probed, even taking advantage of say a hobby, turn this in to a business, I don't know the answer, apart offering from support when required?

 

[eil]

Hear Hear runnach, how many will be going to see the bank manager with a "could you extend my overdraft please" or a "any chance of a cheaper intrest rate for a while" Any guesses on what will be the answer.

 

[madkayaker]

Weld the safe shut if they refuse. Hitch what rods would we need?

 

[Bobtail4x4]

All public sector employees (especially the senior ones.. that's YOU, Mr Chief Constable of wherever you like), should get.... lets say... 5 years of retirement (most of then started watching the clock by the time they were 35, so make that 2, as they've done bugger all since then).

And at 67/62.... it's up against the wall! Cos i'm ******** if i'm paying for you!

It used to be the principal in public service that you'd get a middling wage and a good pension. Now they're all (Cooncils, Gov't, nurses etc etc), getting walloping salaries as well as fantastic pensions. And any of them who disagree with this, go and get yourselves a real job, and then tell me what it's like!

QUOTE]

You forget that for years the pay was well under the going rate for anyone in a proffesional job, I could have been on 25% more in the private sector, trouble is I have been trained to do a proper job rather than falsify records and turn a blind eye to safety.
where do you think the pension comes from?from payments made by the employee, yes the enployers make contributions, but then so do all firms.

................................................................................................

back on subject,

Im a BCO for a local authority, 15 years ago we had a time and motion thing done by an external set of auditors, we were told we needed 10 staff, rather than the 8 we had,

the workload has gone up and we are trying to cover the increased workload with 4 staff now. (wonder why we are one of the few sections running at a profit to the council?)

I see few houses on the go recently, a few one offs, but loads of extensions and alterations. people will spend on improving what they have.

 

[rtbcomp]

Im a BCO for a local authority

Not Kirklees by any chance?

 

[drjim]

Dear Mr Drains

I work in the NHS and am thus the sort of person that you want to be dispensioned at 67 or something. My salary may be paid by taxpayers, but I actually do something worthwhile for that, I also pay hideous amounts of tax - a couple of years ago I did 14 months of 1 in 2 on call (as in every other day and every other weekend) with no days off, took none of my annual leave, and ran an A&E department with one proper colleague and 2 locums. I earned a huge sum of cash, but also paid £65,000 straight back to Mr Brown to squander on the unemployable. Also the majority of nurses work very hard, and are not on megabucks.

The real problem are the armies of middle managers on £35-50k salaries who do no productive work, they mostly sort out statistics for the government, or chase the actual workers around because the stats are out of line. http://www.bristolmedchi.co.uk/archive/parable_of_the_nhs.htm

The huge sums spent on the NHS in recent years have paid for these parasites, but we still have no more beds or other resources - hence the current hospital crises which means that for instance my department had 200 attendances on Sunday, 75 of whom breached the 4 hour target - if we had met the 98% target that should have been 4 patients. These people are being looked after in corridors, which is something I last had to deal with about 5 years ago. What's the problem - exactly the same as when I first started working there in 2003, not enough beds, inefficiency disguised as reform, lack of investment where it is needed, and poor leadership (at any level above mine of course ). If I was asked to do 1 in 2 on call now, they would need to quadruple what I was willing to do it for previously, as goodwill has long since emigrated, never mind left the building. Besides I'd need to hire someone to do my welding while I was at work

Back to the economy, it seems to me that everything is falling apart starting with the banks, and cascading down via any industry that depended on finance - housing cars etc. Anyone who actually makes something or does something useful should be OK.

Jim

PS As to getting a real job, would you have liked to chase the suicidal guy in a wheelchair down the road today with me, then spend a while explaining why he isn't allowed to die while I am looking after him? Nope, thought not.

[/offended mode]

 

[ben8vgte]

Trouble is for me anyway is that joinery and home improvement work always tails off towards christmas and with everthing else this year making it worse, we'll see by febuary if it's as bad as everone's saying (i hope not)

 

[Drains]

You see DrJim, it's good when loudmouth no-nothings like me get to post ideas they "heard from some bloke in the pub" who "reads the Daily Mail" or whatever, cos it gives people like you the opportunity to address generalisations and misconceptions harboured by us and the rest of the mob.

BTW, I don't really believe statements like wot I made earlier, except with reference to chief constables and their managerial ilk. I don't imagine for a moment that their pensions reflect their worth (although they might reflect their earnings).

Anyway, I think you know exactly what I meant, even if i phrased it badly. As for the suicidal wheelchairist... I bet you sometimes wish you didn't care.

Sorry for any offense caused Jim. Not intended.

 

[drjim]

Not really offended, just makes for better banter to pretend a bit!

I tried not to care about his overdose etc, but when he went wheeling off down the road I decided he might get run over so I'd better stop him.

 

[madkayaker]

Weld a bar through the wheel that will slow him down and make him easier to catch. (or can finish coffee first)

 

[runnach]

drjim, you should have left him to be pumeled by a chelsea tractor, and after rescueing the now damaged wheelchair, jump into nearest phonebox........TaRaaaaa.........drweld.......repair chair, earn a substantial wage rise for being a multi-multi tasker

 

[weldequip]

costing more in admin than was worth

There lies all our problems people
Legions of parasitic box tickers
What did you expect from champagne socialists?
weldequip

 

[English Steve]

Anyone who actually makes something or does something useful should be OK.

We make stuff, but are certainly not OK at the moment . Approx 60 fabricators, assemblers and associated office staff are 'under consultation' ie they have a month to come up with a reason why they shouldn't be laid off!

Most of our equipment is sold into the larger dry-waste disposal operators, who in turn contract to the various councils around the country. They are not spending any money at all at the moment - we haven't taken a single order since october.

Christmas has been officially cancelled.

 

[dutchman]

Back to the economy, it seems to me that everything is falling apart starting with the banks, and cascading down via any industry that depended on finance - housing cars etc. Anyone who actually makes something or does something useful should be OK.

The banks helped a lot in creating this mess, but a very fundamental issue underneath it, the skewed balance of trade between the West and Asia, has to be resolved.
So, if you want to save the economy, think of something you can export to the Asian countries that are expected to be the source for economic growth in the coming years.

As for something useful, education, healthcare, food and energy supply, maintenance, etc are always useful

 

[MrFluffy]

Define useful, its easy to say those who make useful things will be ok but EVERYTHING that is in business today is useful or it would be unpurchased in pursuit of more profit for the shareholders at all and any costs. Legally the board HAVE to shaft everyone for the maximum legal benefit to them. There are no ethics in this, and any that claim to be that way are just using marketing ploys.

For example, take a large company and remove their telephones, see how long they last. Or cancel their IT based billing systems. OR for that matter close the works cafeteria. It sounds daft but even the works canteen operates to increase the profit by dint of loosing less time for employee's to down tools and go seek their own lunch.

The only non essentials to most business have already been pared back. That is corporate hospitality (everyone knows times are too tight for large bungs to be funded), some marketing functions, travel and R&D. Theyre all selling long term possibility down the river in exchange for staying afloat in current climes but thats what it takes.

Dutchman, i think asia is cacking itself about the state of the US economy and its knock on effects as much as anyone else. In fact they own a significant percentage of the us national debt, and the US is their biggest export manufacturer. Currently there is a lot of unrest in china over exports of toymakers being significantly down, they want the market to pick back up as much as everyone else before the mobs come out.
India has the same story, returning relatives to most of the villages which traditionally sent people out to work in europe or the us. I think them and outsouring been more of a drain on the world economy than dodgy chinese goods to be honest sending funds offshore for the benefit of some of the board and shareholders.
I think we're in for a short rough ride. I just hope the pound starts to recover against the euro, its killing my source of funds...

 

[malcolm]

I like the idea of exporting. I've been bringing money in directly from abroad since since 2002, though that reflects the lack of UK based people I could get involved with. In any case foreigners are cutting back in my very useful field. But plan B also involves exporting, but just charging them more money.

Post war there was a real push to export. Raw materials were in short supply and was allocated to companies that would export. I think something like 80% of MGs were exported at the time, and there were banners up around the place with motivational messages.

Must have been a real buzz too - having a common purpose that everyone could work to, and one that would create jobs too. Probably that carried on from the wartime buzz.

Wouldn't it be great if someone would come along and lead the country in a motivational way and help us do what's best rather than worrying about what the press would say. Suspect it would do a lot for other areas of society too. Just now I think we are lazy as a society. We need a bit of good leadership and wartime spirit (without actually going to the bother of starting another of these wars).

So who is for PM? Forget the current contenders as that system has gone wrong and they are products of the system. I'm for Clementine the Cat (my stuffed toy) and Clementine's new Britain.

(Sorry - got a bit political there. Hope the euro improves Mr Fluffy. My mother is in the same boat having moved over there planning to rely on UK cash for retirement.)

And another thing - current policies are going to make it even more difficult for the UK to join the euro. They have entrance requirements, that even Lithuania haven't managed to meet, and they are quite sensible.