All UK HGVs to be zero emissions from 2040

[ronan]

There used to be these things in the olden days called "trains". Then a fat buffoon called Beeching came along in the 1960's and said "Lets get rid of these and invest in my friends motorway building company and make us rich". If "Trains" were still around, then lorries would only be needed for local work, and electric would be fine.

But Is there a leader with the wit and intellegence to implement something like that now ?

 

[zzr1200]

Not in this country they won't. Joe public doesn't want large HGV's on the road, but want the goods they deliver.

Thats because of all the "Farmer Giles Tractors" blocking the road in your area during the summer..

 

[mike os]

So better start stockpiling everything you ever saw on a truck..

 

[The Artilleryman]

Thats because of all the "Farmer Giles Tractors" blocking the road in your area during the summer..

Summer, 12 months of the b***** year, they were out picking Brussel Sprouts for the supermarkets on Christmas day last year.

I've seen smaller (full size) traction engines than some of the tractors around here.

 

[rtcosic]

Nearly 20 years ago I visited a very large open cast mine.
The haul trucks were hybrids. They picked up power from overhead wires - as electric trains - on the long uphill haul out of the mine. Small diesel engine (relatively!) on the level run to the crusher and back to the top of the incline.
Regenerative braking all the way back down to the mine.

Ironically they were being replaced by all diesels as the state-owned power company would not supply enough power!

I have long been curious why motorways don't have overhead wires over the inside lane to recharge battery wagons as they run.

I'm old enough to remember the last tram lines being removed. Then the last Sunbeam trolleybuses being phased out for dirty dieseasels. What goes around comes around.

 

[Welder Crafts]

I guess we may need to start importing camels then.
They are zero emission creatures I think

 

[mike os]

I guess we may need to start importing camels then.
They are zero emission creatures I think

Herbivores fart ..... and are going to kill the world

 

[roofman]

I'm guessing this will apply to new vehicles sold, so there won't suddenly be the demand overnight, rather that over time as people change over it will go up - and I guess it might have a knock on effect of making the existing rolling stock last longer, if there is nothing suitable to replace it by then.

Though I can see the date slipping considerably unless there's some fairly dramatic leaps forward in technology in the near future - I'm guessing the current government are quite happy to make the pledge knowing it wont be them that has to finally deliver!

All this ^^^^

 

[MetalMonkey]

There used to be these things in the olden days called "trains". Then a fat buffoon called Beeching came along in the 1960's and said "Lets get rid of these and invest in my friends motorway building company and make us rich". If "Trains" were still around, then lorries would only be needed for local work, and electric would be fine.

Reminds me of this recent thread - I reckon it is the most obvious solution and I really can't understand why they are so insistent on pursuing electric self driving vehicles for freight.
Not to mention the massive environmental impact in making batteries, and the huge efficiency losses in charging them.

Fair enough, we need to use road for last mile, but why reinvent the wheel? Seems to me that we had largely solved the problem by the 1930s with electrified rail, and have spent the following decades undoing it all.

 

[ronan]

Reminds me of this recent thread - I reckon it is the most obvious solution and I really can't understand why they are so insistent on pursuing electric self driving vehicles for freight.
Not to mention the massive environmental impact in making batteries, and the huge efficiency losses in charging them.

Fair enough, we need to use road for last mile, but why reinvent the wheel? Seems to me that we had largely solved the problem by the 1930s with electrified rail, and have spent the following decades undoing it all.

Happens abroad, so they don't care.

 

[dobbslc]

I have long been curious why motorways don't have overhead wires over the inside lane to recharge battery

If you did that you would kill the sport of elephant racing and there'd be hundreds of lorries stuck with dead batteries in the middle lane of all the motorways

 

[ronan]

 

[MetalMonkey]

Happens abroad, so they don't care.

Ahh yes, that’s the bit where we all have to pretend that China and Russia aren't part of the same global environment as everybody else.
So all the effort we go to make our 1.03% of global CO2 emissions net neutral seems worthwhile, and not completely overshadowed by China not giving a hoot about their 29.18%

 

[merryman]

If "Trains" were still around, then lorries would only be needed for local work, and electric would be fine.

Notwithstanding, the railway station in every city would need to be like Folkestone to load/unload the lorries onto and off rail trucks. Think about it you need to take a container from Sutton Coalfield to Trafford Park, load up onto a Lorry. unload at a station in Birmingham, off the train in central Manchester and onto another Lorry, deliver to Trafford Park. Or just drive the first lorry straight up the M6

 

[Mma man]

If electric was the answer you would think they would have electrified the rail network years ago but the fact that they didn't and most trains are diesel powered tells you we just don't have enough electricity produced in the UK for any of boris's plans.

 

[ronan]

Ahh yes, that’s the bit where we all have to pretend that China and Russia aren't part of the same global environment as everybody else.
So all the effort we go to make our 1.03% of global CO2 emissions net neutral seems worthwhile, and not completely overshadowed by China not giving a hoot about their 29.18%

How many billions will that 1.03% cost ? At the same time China is opening 1-2 new coal fired power stations a week, and is going to build 100 new airports over the next decade. Complete waste of time money and effort.

 

[8ob]

I have never looked at the economics of rail, I was stuck at a level crossing in Southampton the other day and a container train went by, I counted forty five forty foot containers behind that one Loco, it must be way more efficient than running forty five trucks.

Bob

 

[MetalMonkey]

How many billions will that 1.03% cost ? At the same time China is opening 1-2 new coal fired power stations a week, and is going to build 100 new airports over the next decade. Complete waste of time money and effort.

I'm sure Greta Thunberg will be popping over to Beijing any moment to have a word with Xi Jinping

Anyway we only have to be carbon neutral - so we can still carry on as normal and produce it, we just have to offset it by bunging some dictator in the third world a truckload of cash and weapons to plant some trees or something for us. Doesn't even matter if they don't. Who is going to count them?

I suppose if they run out of trees to plant we could send them some, and then they can ship them back so we can use them in our sustainable wood chip burning power plants to charge our electric vehicles...
Climate change. Sorted.

 

[J1nx]

quik maffs

485k HGVs registered in UK last year. Half of them maybe? 44 tonners
44t lorry 7.6 mpg average
500 miles travel (small range really) - 296 litres diesel
approximates into 2960 KWh potential energy
30% efficiency (being kind) = 888 KWh

Now lets disregard the electrical energy losses and assume you just need 888 KWh of electrical energy to take 44 tons 500 miles (in reality you need more)

"will charge 80% in an hour" - so 80% of 888KWh in 1 hour = 710KW quick chargers? REALLY? Where's this distribution network going to come from?

Basic error there, needing 500 miles. No need at all, let’s first start now where law states a minimum 45min break every 4.5hrs.
4.5hrs at 50mph average (being generous) so there we are at 270 miles range required whilst leaving plenty of head room.
The terra 360 chargers that ABB make supply 360KW for car drivers, although this could be upped no problem.
Of course after the first charge and second part of the journey the 9hr driving limit comes in and you have hours and hours of charging available.

 

[mike os]

And where does the electricity come from? The magic farm?