advice please

[skrd23]

hello just found the site and had a brief look round thanks, ive done a bit of gas arc and mi welding years ago not much and only on at least 3mm plate... so i want to get a mig and play. I live in france where the voltage is i think 220 at 50hz however i want to buy the welder new from the uk. maybe it would be better to buy a french one but the uk cost will be much better. i presume if i buy brand new the spec should run here?

I need to run a new cable from my fusebox to the welder it will be connected to its own individual rcb on the fusebox should i get 32 or 40 amp? The socket will be about 25 metres from the fusebox so with voltage drop heat etc would it be best to run 4mm 6mm or 10mm cable?

the fuse box is earthed with 6 rods and 25mtrs of bare 16mm copper wire (all buried) but would it be necessary or prudent to run a seperate earth spike from the socket

Lastly this is the welder i wnated to get ive bought other sealey tools and been happy with them but i would welcome any thoughts or comments

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-18...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item43b590222e

aah ive just checked not sure if its a no gas mig?

this looks better?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
i hope to use it for metal up to about 5mm but i want to try and weld car panels aswell and i would like a gas/no gas welder
thanks for your time hopefully ill get my new toy

 

[Jan]

hello just found the site and had a brief look round thanks, ive done a bit of gas arc and mi welding years ago not much and only on at least 3mm plate... so i want to get a mig and play. I live in france where the voltage is i think 220 at 50hz however i want to buy the welder new from the uk. maybe it would be better to buy a french one but the uk cost will be much better. i presume if i buy brand new the spec should run here?

I need to run a new cable from my fusebox to the welder it will be connected to its own individual rcb on the fusebox should i get 32 or 40 amp? The socket will be about 25 metres from the fusebox so with voltage drop heat etc would it be best to run 4mm 6mm or 10mm cable?

Personally speaking I would opt for the 40 amp setup. Use only the best quality armoured cable you can afford and run it through the correct diameter trunking. Also I wouldn't rely on those stupidly tinny European mains plugs, but rather install a decent set of 30+ amps industrial sockets.

the fuse box is earthed with 6 rods and 25mtrs of bare 16mm copper wire (all buried) but would it be necessary or prudent to run a seperate earth spike from the socket

Again I would earth it at both ends - original consumer unit and again at the new one. I prefer the 'belts & braces' approach.

Lastly this is the welder i wnated to get ive bought other sealey tools and been happy with them but i would welcome any thoughts or comments

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-18...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item43b590222e

aah ive just checked not sure if its a no gas mig?

this looks better?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:top:en
i hope to use it for metal up to about 5mm but i want to try and weld car panels aswell and i would like a gas/no gas welder
thanks for your time hopefully ill get my new toy

They're both good hobby units verging on semi-professional use. I can't say for certain, but I would expect both to have the facility to change the polarity in order to use gasless wire. Others may know better. Either should be capable of welding up to 5mm steel with little problem.

 

[skrd23]

ok thanks that makes sense but still got a couple of questions......remember im in france so things are a bit different....if i go for a main disjoncteur at 32a (40amp doesnt exist, at least for non industrial setups) i can either have type a or type ac any ideas on the difference not sure i can get amoured cable here but ill try and then probabley run it outside in 60mm trunking......... is this recommended to prevent the cable breaking or for another reason? the heavy duty plugs and sockets shouldnt be a problem and an extra earth at the socket can be done still not sure on my cable size 4 6 or 10mm?
k thanks again

 

[Jan]

Sorry, but types 'a' and 'ac' mean nothing to me as a Brit. Could it relate to single phase Vs 3-phase? In underground runs the trunking is legally required in most, if not all, of the EU for anything other than 'low voltage' applications, although it's still recommended. It protects the cable in case of someone digging too deep and severing it. At least in the UK there's a minimum depth requirement to help prevent this. Overhead I think it's just a strong recommendation and, depending on construction, should help support the cable. The longer the run from your mains power feed, the greater diameter of the cable required due to impedance in the conductors, so I would always opt for 10mm regardless of the run length. More if it exceeds 30 metres!

 

[the snooper]

the type of breakers (letters) relate to what you are using, compressors can trip certain types on start up due to in rush and so on

 

[skrd23]

thanks just checked the main breaker is 40amp no its single phase type ac is more for washing machines think ill just go type A, thats what most circuits run off it will therefore have its own breaker direct off the bar in the fusebox, thanks ill go for 10mm cable and yes if it goes undergound it gets red trunking and red plastic mesh buried in over it as a warning to diggers in the future not sure ill be able to get armed 10mm but i presume what ive described above will be a safe installation

anyway what a mental site you have here wish this all existed when i was a teenager thanks for the hours of genius on here
any other brits in france here?

 

[the snooper]

are you sure the type ac isn't referring to the current ie ac not dc

 

[skrd23]

these are differential breakers type a detects leaks alternative and continuous current leaks (this might be a bad translation of direct current?) type ac detects ac leaks only thanks for asking i had to check and then translate not sure that makes sense

 

[the snooper]

my post should have been clearer type ac, to be used with ac only as opposed to a type b or c breaker I cant find a type ac

 

[skotl]

With no offence intended to my fellow mig-welding forum posters, you should really be asking the electrical questions on an electrical forum.
My favourite is diynot, which has a dedicated electrical sub-forum at http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=8

They also have a non-UK electrics forum but it's not particularly busy, and your questions are not really France/UK specific.

(edit: Just realised you said that you were not referring to "breakers" or MCBs - I'll leave this paragraph in, though, as it may be of use to you or other members);
I wonder, when you are talking about type A or type C, whether you are talking about Miniature Circuit Breakers aka MCBs? Type A are faster tripping than Type B (which is the norm in the UK) vs Type C. Type C are recommended for high-load startup circuits, such as welders. So if you are putting in a dedicated circuit for your welder, I'd definitely put a Type C MCB (C32, in your case) on it.

Back to burying cables, if I could just add a slight correction to Jan's post (sorry!) - buried cables should be Steel Wire Armoured (SWA), not simply trunked. The recommendation is SWA buried 600mm beneath the surface with "Buried Cable!" tape laid approx 250mm above the cable. Note that these are UK guidelines, but they are pretty reasonable guidelines!

You also need to terminate the SWA correctly at each end with an appropriate terminal block. As for the cross-section (aka "size") of the SWA, this does (as the O.P. states) depend on voltage, current, distance and acceptable voltage drop. The folks at diynot are better qualified than I to make a recommendation based on these inputs.

You mention earthing, too. That's a complex topic, but you shouldn't (generally) be trying to create your own earth. Use 3 core SWA, where the shield is bound to one of the cores, and that is the earth at the termination block and therefore at your welder.

Finally, none of this is as expensive as it may seem - 15m of SWA with terminating blocks will cost around £100 to £150, which is well worthwhile compared to the costs of your garage, welder, life, etc.

 

[Jan]

Could have sworn that I'd recommended the use of armoured cable. Obviously not. Must have been another thread Anyhoo; for very short runs I favour the overhead cable - assuming that it's legal. My workshop is less than a metre from the wall that the cable has to pass through, so it doesn't need much in the way of support. Even so I intend to use some decent quality (stainless?) wire rope to hold it up and plenty of slack in the cable(s) in case the garage sways a bit in the wind. It shouldn't as I've added a hell of a lot of weight to the construction for just this purpose. I estimate that my half tonne building (all steel construction) now contains over a tonne of steel braced wood roof trusses - and I've yet to add the hefty ground spikes and concrete! Fortunately it's protected from the worst of the weather on 3 sides by the house, a brand spanking new 5' fence and several trees that have easily withstood the worst that several years of weather have thrown at them.

 

[skrd23]

many thanks interesting stuff skotl ill be looking for 10mm2 armoured cable then