A surprising cost comparison - ICE / EV

[Farside]

Is that metal channel bonded?
Is the cable UV resistant?
No mechanical protection to the cable...
That sort of lash up will never pass regs.
It's a total joke the government thinking everyone will have an electric car in not many years time.
Terrace streets are not easily made EV friendly.

A swinging gantry from the front of the house will solve that.
Doesn't have to be more than a lightweight affair that won't clatter stupid people's heads.

 

[Justme]

Your customers numbers are about right for a granny charger managing just over 2 kW continuous through a 13 A plug trying to fill a 100kWh battery from flat. A small investment in a charging point which can monitor the house load and adjust the cars charge rate accordingly would be a sensible move in his case if charge speed bothered him. Plus I suspect there's a fast charger somewhere in the locality he could get a 50 kW boost to bulk charge before the car got to the completely flat stage, Tesla owners are well catered for!

My nearest tesla charger is about 20 miles & only 13kw.
Or 25 miles for a 22kw.
Or 30 miles away for a 50kw
Nearest super charger about 2 hours away.

Looking at the map we are not the worst off either.

 

[R Kraft]

Around here, they are shutting down fossil fuel power plants and replacing them with nothing.
Rumors are circulating of upcoming brownouts and black outs.
Gasoline prices are up by 70% since January.
Greenies are trying to get more oil pipe lines shut down, to force people to run their cars on electricity that doesn't exist.
Sorry about the rant, but where is the logic ?

 

[mike os]

Well according to that map, my nearest is 40 minutes away in Chester

 

[atomant48]

My nearest tesla charger is about 20 miles & only 13kw.
Or 25 miles for a 22kw.
Or 30 miles away for a 50kw
Nearest super charger about 2 hours away.

Looking at the map we are not the worst off either.
View attachment 320015

Have you got a Tesla ? There seems to be more “normal” charging stations than Tesla round here but they do have both.

 

[willie.macleod]

My nearest tesla charger is about 20 miles & only 13kw.
Or 25 miles for a 22kw.
Or 30 miles away for a 50kw
Nearest super charger about 2 hours away.

Looking at the map we are not the worst off either.

At 13kW you are still pumping in more than 40 miles of range every hour. At 50kW you are putting in more than 150 miles range per hour! All you need is enough juice to get you onto the main road arteries where Tesla owners invariably have more options than other as they can use higher power type 2 connections, CCS connections or Teslas own super chargers spread throughout the country which generally have the highest power.

In comparison my Leaf can either use a type 2 connection with a 3.6kW charge rate at 12 miles of range per hour or a CHAdeMO fast charge connection which is getting rarer these days but will give me 60 miles of range in around half an hour.

 

[J1nx]

My nearest tesla charger is about 20 miles & only 13kw.
Or 25 miles for a 22kw.
Or 30 miles away for a 50kw
Nearest super charger about 2 hours away.

Looking at the map we are not the worst off either.

If your in Pwllheli as per profile, then my map shows a couple of pod chargers and 3 Zeronet within approx 5 miles. Also a Tesla charger at Criccieth, 8.9 miles from Pwllheli.
You are in a pretty remote location tbf.

 

[Edward Teach]

Why bother with electric, when you live in the middle of nowhere.

 

[8ob]

Why bother with electric, when you live in the middle of nowhere.

I suppose this is where the hybrids come into play, trolley along with an engine and switch over to leccy when in town. I doubt if the carbon footprint of getting infrastructure to the most remote places in this country could ever be offset against the gains.

Bob

 

[daleyd]

Why bother with electric, when you live in the middle of nowhere.

Do you not have electricity at home?

 

[Edward Teach]

I suppose this is where the hybrids come into play, trolley along with an engine and switch over to leccy when in town. I doubt if the carbon footprint of getting infrastructure to the most remote places in this country could ever be offset against the gains.

Bob

As with everything,
It is always a money thing',
Which I have little of !
I'll let everyone else worry about this, that and other, and watch it all evolve.

 

[J1nx]

Do you not have electricity at home?

Im not really sure why people look locally for chargers, unless your getting free charging doing it at home on a EV tariff is usually best, for battery (slower overnight charging), wallet and the grid.
If I was doing lowish mileage daily then never visiting a petrol or charging station is quite appealing. I’m in a rural location and in some ways that helps, I have loads of off road parking with power available from a couple of buildings.
With a Tesla you want a charger about 200 miles in whatever direction you are travelling, not 20.

 

[daleyd]

Im not really sure why people look locally for chargers, unless your getting free charging doing it at home on a EV tariff is usually best, for battery (slower overnight charging), wallet and the grid.
If I was doing lowish mileage daily then never visiting a petrol or charging station is quite appealing.
With a Tesla you want a charger about 200 miles in whatever direction you are travelling, not 20.

That’s the plan when we changed my missus car for an ev (still waiting for it to be built). The furthest she drives is going to be a 35 mile each way journey but most will be <10 miles a day so we didn’t even bother to check if there were chargers nearby because it’s just not even an issue. I appreciate this may not be the case for every one.

 

[Burdekin]

The worrying thing for EVs is they produce 20 or 30% more CO2 in the manufacturing so this big push to convert to electric is going to make things much worse in the next decade. Don’t get me wrong I’m all for reducing emissions, cutting CO2, cutting noise pollution etc but producing more cars certainly isn’t the answer. EVs or hydrogen vehicles in cities are great but we need to increase how long folk keep cars for and reduce the number of miles they do. It’s a dilemma but if the earth does continue to rise in temperature there’s going to be significant effects and not just on climate but on world economics.

 

[8ob]

reduce the number of miles they do.

Thats where LA planners need rasping with the rough end of a pineapple, by allowing all these "super stores",in town shopping centres and house building on site`s where small industry stood they have rid most small towns of shops/workplaces that were within walking/bike riding distance of home. Everything for us now is a trip into town, planners should force the big supermarket chains to run 7-11`s in the rural areas they have sterilised as a proviso to consent.

Bob

 

[Agrismith]

Thats where LA planners need rasping with the rough end of a pineapple, by allowing all these "super stores",in town shopping centres and house building on site`s where small industry stood they have rid most small towns of shops/workplaces that were within walking/bike riding distance of home. Everything for us now is a trip into town, planners should force the big supermarket chains to run 7-11`s in the rural areas they have sterilised as a proviso to consent.

Bob

I live and work a stones through from your yard and
To be fair around here I think the amount of small coops is actually pretty impressive usually have decent parking and a good selection and they are always opening new ones too.
In a lot of ways they are far better than the little old corner shops selling crisps chocolate and fags.

 

[brewdexta]

The worrying thing for EVs is they produce 20 or 30% more CO2 in the manufacturing so this big push to convert to electric is going to make things much worse in the next decade. Don’t get me wrong I’m all for reducing emissions, cutting CO2, cutting noise pollution etc but producing more cars certainly isn’t the answer. EVs or hydrogen vehicles in cities are great but we need to increase how long folk keep cars for and reduce the number of miles they do. It’s a dilemma but if the earth does continue to rise in temperature there’s going to be significant effects and not just on climate but on world economics.

Any links to this analysis? Just looking at our Leaf and I find it hard to see where the extra CO2 in manufacturing comes from. It's got a big battery but they are much simpler than ICE cars, lots of bits missing. The Leaf is an old design now, I bet the newer EVs are easier to construct and with economies of scale are likely to be cheaper and produce less CO2 during manufacture. Also less consumables, oil, brake pads, timing chains etc.

 

[brewdexta]

Any links to this analysis? Just looking at our Leaf and I find it hard to see where the extra CO2 in manufacturing comes from. It's got a big battery but they are much simpler than ICE cars, lots of bits missing. The Leaf is an old design now, I bet the newer EVs are easier to construct and with economies of scale are likely to be cheaper and produce less CO2 during manufacture. Also less consumables, oil, brake pads, timing chains etc.

I just took a look, the 30 -40% comes from a study in 2019 by Dr Florian Knobloch from the University of Nijmegen together with Cambridge University - fantastic name! The report said that the battery component of the CO2 emission relied on where it was made. Factories in China are typically coal powered, but if the battery is made in Europe, then the electricity for manufacture comes from renewables/nuclear.

Studies since then, like the one mention in this link say that the 2019 study was too pessimistic about the battery CO2 component in terms of the assumptions used.

and Bloomberg issued a short piece, and more info here on the future of EVs.

I though the below summed it up nicely.

 

[J1nx]

The worrying thing for EVs is they produce 20 or 30% more CO2 in the manufacturing so this big push to convert to electric is going to make things much worse in the next decade. Don’t get me wrong I’m all for reducing emissions, cutting CO2, cutting noise pollution etc but producing more cars certainly isn’t the answer. EVs or hydrogen vehicles in cities are great but we need to increase how long folk keep cars for and reduce the number of miles they do. It’s a dilemma but if the earth does continue to rise in temperature there’s going to be significant effects and not just on climate but on world economics.

This video might help clear up this myth and a few others. 5min48 covers this particular myth, which is unfortunately spread around the internet without much up to date evidence.

Whats next? Claims that we can’t recycle the batteries

 

[Agrismith]

I think this is a case that statistics can prove anything if you pick the right ones and we will never likely know the truth so probably not worth dwelling on.
The problem with all modern cars regardless of propulsion system is they are crap tbh. It doesn't matter if the battery doesn't really deteriorate for 10 years when everything around falls apart.
Seeing as noone seems to actually buy cars anymore it would surely make more sense to design cars with a 20year realistic lifespan on 20year lease deals.