A surprising cost comparison - ICE / EV

[toddy]

And how long do you think that will last?

Well until 2025 as the gov make it very very hard to get the discount

 

[Mr Fro]

The range of 15-40% is way out for charging losses, 15% would be at the high end. To help offset costs further a number of chargers are still on free vend so not every kWh going in is charged for.

Sadly not.

There's a very wide band of charger efficiencies as making the charging component for EV efficient at all charging rates is expensive.

Generally, EV manufacturers quote efficiency at a particular charge rate with anything outside of that being significantly less efficient.

 

[Bobupndown]

I should maybe have broken it down further, fuel costs in the Discovery are around 21p/mile, fuel costs in the Leaf are around 5p/mile.

I know which I'd rather drive though

 

[Fastdruid]

The savings on an EV can be substantial but only if you're on the PCP train/ regularly swap for new cars and/or doing lots of miles.

It's not a new issue, it's the same as people spending 10's of k on a new car because its £100/ year cheaper on ved and 5mpg better!

One would make massive sense for a lot of my usage but I'd save about £500/year on fuel if electricity was free and *still* need another car... Just doesn't make any economic sense.

 

[tom-madbiker]

One of my customers has a Tesla model X amongst others and just moved into a older farmhouse so I was asking him about it as I had heard they have good range and quick charging he said it went in for a update on the computer in it and all it seemed to do was lose 20 miles of range which I I thought was not too bad thinking it does 400 ish miles no say he it's 200 quoted but real world is more like 180 unless no lights heater ect so now it 160 then I asked about charging his response yes great on my old house where I had a decent supply but now I have very limited supply so it takes 48 hrs from flat his conclusion great for going into London and gettin rid of tax money useless otherwise at the time he was driving round in a 10 year old mitsubishi diesel the Tesla was on charge at the back

 

[atomant48]

At the moment for company car drivers there really is no comparison - pay “about” 7-8k per year in BIK tax for anything other than electric or pay “about” 4-500 for an EV. Depending on your arrangement, things like maintenance and insurance don’t factor so it is an absolute no brainier for the running cost comparison. With some of them now achieving “real world” 300 plus miles that was the last hurdle for me.
Totally accept that the tax revenue has to come from somewhere but happy to ride the wave in the meantime. I do fear that the sale of new EVs is far outpacing the growth of the infrastructure - so they need to focus on that imo rather than just getting more cars out the door.
It’s a really really complex comparison - as above - and you have to be so careful comparing countries (for example the average age of a vehicle in some countries is far higher than others which suggests a culture of longer ownership - so less opportunity to “swap to an EV”). No one that I know (in 4 different countries) driving one has any regrets (except changing over earlier!).
Ultimately it will always be a personal choice and it is so emotive that some folk simply won’t be convinced. That’s good for reducing queues at the chargers :-)

 

[Blobber]

Isnt it all just smoke and mirrors? Its the usual thing loads of subsided deals for cars and charging that only people with money can take advantage of?

 

[brewdexta]

Our 4th Leaf is on its way. Great cars, they don't feel like milk float, more a hot hatch but with slightly baggier handling. Range is about 140 miles real world for the 40kW model, and that's with heating, air con and a heavyish right boot. Our next model is the 62kW version. more power and real world range should be around 200. This means I can visit my mum over near Whitby, there and back with no recharge.

The range/charging isn't an issue unless your doing stuff that needs the range all the time, in which case don't buy one. Even then we have done many extended trips, usually fine, occasionally we hit a bad charger. I wouldn't want to do it as a sales rep putting in the miles every day though, not yet.

Mileage does go down marginally if you turn on all the toys but so do ICE, it a fundamental law of physics

Why our 4th Leaf? The dealership calls current owners if they don't reach their end of year's sales quota so every couple of years we swap it out for a new one, usually on a better lease deal than before. The 62kW one was quite a bit more than the 40kW the last time was asked. This time we got the 62kW for slightly less than our 40kW, and its a bit quicker too, 214bhp v 148bhp, happy days

So prices are coming down. Maintenance is really cheap, I tend to use the e-pedal feature that increases the electronic braking a bit, we've never needed pads or discs yet, but I guess we swap the cars too early. Swapping the cars out frequently does increase the number in the second hand market too.

I've only done 5K miles in the Ranger in the last year, and I daren't leave it down the railway station for a three days while I'm in London so once the lease is up we will look for an full EV that can tow, by that time I'll probably be retired and it will be our only car. May not be achievable, but we'll see.

 

[minimutly]

One of my customers has a Tesla model X amongst others and just moved into a older farmhouse so I was asking him about it as I had heard they have good range and quick charging he said it went in for a update on the computer in it and all it seemed to do was lose 20 miles of range which I I thought was not too bad thinking it does 400 ish miles no say he it's 200 quoted but real world is more like 180 unless no lights heater ect so now it 160 then I asked about charging his response yes great on my old house where I had a decent supply but now I have very limited supply so it takes 48 hrs from flat his conclusion great for going into London and gettin rid of tax money useless otherwise at the time he was driving round in a 10 year old mitsubishi diesel the Tesla was on charge at the back

. . . . . .
Not sure if that’s enough?

 

[Bryan Williams]

dramatically, plus some I suspect. It will be interesting to see if the pay per mile charging is for EVs, or all cars, so ice cars will pay twice - I wouldn't put it past the slobbering ***** in charge....

Can I nick that phrase please?

 

[Bryan Williams]

Our 4th Leaf is on its way. Great cars, they don't feel like milk float, more a hot hatch but with slightly baggier handling. Range is about 140 miles real world for the 40kW model, and that's with heating, air con and a heavyish right boot. Our next model is the 62kW version. more power and real world range should be around 200. This means I can visit my mum over near Whitby, there and back with no recharge.

The range/charging isn't an issue unless your doing stuff that needs the range all the time, in which case don't buy one. Even then we have done many extended trips, usually fine, occasionally we hit a bad charger. I wouldn't want to do it as a sales rep putting in the miles every day though, not yet.

Mileage does go down marginally if you turn on all the toys but so do ICE, it a fundamental law of physics

Why our 4th Leaf? The dealership calls current owners if they don't reach their end of year's sales quota so every couple of years we swap it out for a new one, usually on a better lease deal than before. The 62kW one was quite a bit more than the 40kW the last time was asked. This time we got the 62kW for slightly less than our 40kW, and its a bit quicker too, 214bhp v 148bhp, happy days

So prices are coming down. Maintenance is really cheap, I tend to use the e-pedal feature that increases the electronic braking a bit, we've never needed pads or discs yet, but I guess we swap the cars too early. Swapping the cars out frequently does increase the number in the second hand market too.

I've only done 5K miles in the Ranger in the last year, and I daren't leave it down the railway station for a three days while I'm in London so once the lease is up we will look for an full EV that can tow, by that time I'll probably be retired and it will be our only car. May not be achievable, but we'll see.

Where's the environmently friendlyness of buying new vehicles every couple of years? Not a personal criticism but I can't really see how this helps the problem.

 

[Bryan Williams]

Anyone running a vegoil diesel conversion?
My van runs fine on neat cooking oil and I've toyed with the idea of converting it, I'll have to pay Greater Manchester Council £10 a day to drive round soon soon as the new lez laws kick in, trying to off set that..

 

[brewdexta]

Where's the environmently friendlyness of buying new vehicles every couple of years? Not a personal criticism but I can't really see how this helps the problem.

If we intend to replace ICE with EV then somebody has to buy them

I have driven sheds for most of my life, my last car I owned for 12 years, the leaf is the wife's car. I've had damaged repairables which I think is fairly green. Once the kids stop needing dad's taxi to the school bus and I've retired we will down size to one car and probably keep it a bit longer but I can no longer be harrised to crawl under cars and fettle them. Were not ready to buy an EV outright yet, we'll wait until the tech curves plateaus a bit.

However I would prefer a decent low cost public transport system that works to replace most journey's. Wouldn't help me much living out in the wilds though except when travelling to London unless rural on demand transport schemes begin to ramp up. My wife is involved in promoting that idea locally and has some support.

 

[Bryan Williams]

However I would prefer a decent low cost public transport system that works to replace most journey's. Wouldn't help me much living out in the wilds though except when travelling to London unless rural on demand transport schemes begin to ramp up.

Yep.. I'm currently reading this sitting in the car waiting for the missus after running her to a church meeting in Hale from Oldham.
Half an hour in the car, or1 1/2 hours on public transport, that's not out in the sticks either.. Oldham has buses trams and trains, still not affordable or handy.

 

[jimbo84]

Anyone running a vegoil diesel conversion?
My van runs fine on neat cooking oil and I've toyed with the idea of converting it, I'll have to pay Greater Manchester Council £10 a day to drive round soon soon as the new lez laws kick in, trying to off set that..

There's a grace period for light vans until early 2023 I think, march or may 2022 for everyone else (commercials). It'd cost me £10 every time I wanted to see my mum, a 10 minute journey over the border from Lancashire into Greater Manchester.

There's going to be a load of grants available if what they say is true and they materialise so you might be able to get some funding for a change of van if you're eligible.

I've already gone electric so will be able to avoid the charge when I do venture over the border.

 

[KemppiFrog]

Over here, I run a diesel Kangoo, won't be allowed in city centers soon, but I rarely need to do that. It does about 50mpg, so not exactly thirsty, compared with many of the SUVs that I share the road with.
We have about 80% nuke power and solar stuff is all over popping up. So likely a little electric, like the Citroen or the new Dascia would do for a shopping car. But I still need to cart stuff about and tow my boats. That is not being addressed by the eco mob.
It does sound a bit like you, in the UK, are getting hit a bit hard, without a viable solution.
Maybe a bit late, but if peeps had thought a bit and not gone bigger and better on cars, fuelled by the makers.. Then we would not be looking at the abyss now. Audi did a version of the A2 a while back. Managed 100mpg and 100mph.. but dropped because of people not buying. About the size of a last generation Golf, so not cramped. If a few enthusiasts of big SUVs had got a reality check , then, maybe.. we might not be looking at being forced into EVs b tax and other sticks.

 

[mcostello]

Why not have a sales tax added to the charging port cost? House hold and other electricity same rate as always. Gas and diesel engines stay the same. Only cost to go up is those who use elec cars. What ever is cheapest will be sorted out by market forces.

 

[toddy]

well yesterday i had to deliver an item to Hastings From didcot.
i left with a full charge and when i got there i know of a little carpark that as a free charger in it, as well it is free to park if your charging, then drove home.. i got home with nearly 50% charge left, so for about £4.50 i had covered over 270 miles..
and my EV was cheeper than a similar ICE car to buy first, and cheeper to service etc.... so i see it as a win win, but it does not suit everyone.

 

[mike os]

What vehicle @toddy ?

 

[sleepygit]

One of my customers has a Tesla model X amongst others and just moved into a older farmhouse so I was asking him about it as I had heard they have good range and quick charging he said it went in for a update on the computer in it and all it seemed to do was lose 20 miles of range which I I thought was not too bad thinking it does 400 ish miles no say he it's 200 quoted but real world is more like 180 unless no lights heater ect so now it 160 then I asked about charging his response yes great on my old house where I had a decent supply but now I have very limited supply so it takes 48 hrs from flat his conclusion great for going into London and gettin rid of tax money useless otherwise at the time he was driving round in a 10 year old mitsubishi diesel the Tesla was on charge at the back

There is something very wrong with his electric supply at his house if it takes 48 hours to charge his car up.

What does he have, an extension lead running to his neighbours house?