A surprising cost comparison - ICE / EV

[Farside]

Turns out, not everything is as it's cracked up to be.

https://www.andersoneconomicgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/EVtransition_FuelingCostStudy_10-21-21.pdf

Seems like some LAs have woken up to the fall in revenue and are charging accordingly, too.

 

[minimutly]

Bah, they need to factor in cost of ownership over 12 years, then buying new vs used, then cost in carbon new vs old.
Half a story...

 

[Kayos]

I only know one person who drives a Tesla, he reckons his running costs are about half as much as running his diesel car

However, he also got a promotion (hence the Tesla) and is now much more office than site based

 

[Mr Fro]

At $2.81/gallon... I wish!

UK price for US gallon ~ $6.

 

[willie.macleod]

I know it costs me around £1.50 a litre to fuel my Discovery at 32 odd mpg. Electricity costs me 20p kWh both at home or out and about at chargers and my Leaf does around 3.8 miles per kWh. If your journeys fit the profile for an EV then they can make a lot of sense economically in the UK.

 

[voipio]

Based on the above, purely on cost of fuel alone, 32 miles for £1.50's worth of diesel, or 32 miles for 32 x £0.20 / 3.8 = £1.684's worth of electrickery.

 

[daleyd]

Based on the above, purely on cost of fuel alone, 32 miles for £1.50's worth of diesel, or 32 miles for 32 x £0.20 / 3.8 = £1.684's worth of electrickery.

32 mpg doesn’t equal 1.50 worth of diesel though, it’s about 4.5 x that (roughly 4.5l per gallon) ??

 

[Mr Fro]

Don't forget the charging losses!

Wh/km displayed in the vehicle does not include the (15 - 40%) losses incurred by the vehicle charging system.

 

[voipio]

Drat, daleyd, you spotted my deliberate mistake,,,,, not!! :-)

 

[toddy]

Based on the above, purely on cost of fuel alone, 32 miles for £1.50's worth of diesel, or 32 miles for 32 x £0.20 / 3.8 = £1.684's worth of electrickery.

I think you have the figures mixed up there.
For 32 miles in the ice it would be over £6.50

As my ev I can get a 200 mile charge for about £6-8

Also remember that alot of city's are putting in low emissions areas that an ev will not have to pay. As I go into London a few times a month my e v saves me 27.50 each time as it does not need to pay the CC as well.

 

[willie.macleod]

Don't forget the charging losses!

Wh/km displayed in the vehicle does not include the (15 - 40%) losses incurred by the vehicle charging system.

The range of 15-40% is way out for charging losses, 15% would be at the high end. To help offset costs further a number of chargers are still on free vend so not every kWh going in is charged for.

 

[willie.macleod]

Based on the above, purely on cost of fuel alone, 32 miles for £1.50's worth of diesel, or 32 miles for 32 x £0.20 / 3.8 = £1.684's worth of electrickery.

I should maybe have broken it down further, fuel costs in the Discovery are around 21p/mile, fuel costs in the Leaf are around 5p/mile.

 

[piman]

Hello all,

that is now, but as ev ownesrhip increases and fuel revenue drops there has to be a way of recouping that lost revenue. Road charging is likely so ev running cost must increase, probably dramatically.

Alec

 

[minimutly]

Hello all,

that is now, but as ev ownesrhip increases and fuel revenue drops there has to be a way of recouping that lost revenue. Road charging is likely so ev running cost must increase, probably dramatically.

Alec

dramatically, plus some I suspect. It will be interesting to see if the pay per mile charging is for EVs, or all cars, so ice cars will pay twice - I wouldn't put it past the slobbering ***** in charge....

 

[jimbo84]

I pay 5.5p/kwh for electric between 8:30pm and 1:30am. I can't quite fully charge my van in that time although it rarely needs fully charging so with the exception of a few instances of daytime charging and rapid charging it costs me around 1.4p per mile in "fuel".

If you're rapid charging all the time at somewhere like instavolt who charge 40p/kwh yes it can get expensive but I doubt you're anywhere close to dinojuice prices.

Yes the very cheap running isn't going to last forever but there are very few EV drivers that think it will. Make the most of it while you can.

 

[zx9]

I think you have the figures mixed up there.
For 32 miles in the ice it would be over £6.50

As my ev I can get a 200 mile charge for about £6-8

Also remember that alot of city's are putting in low emissions areas that an ev will not have to pay. As I go into London a few times a month my e v saves me 27.50 each time as it does not need to pay the CC as well.

And how long do you think that will last?

 

[optima21]

might be a while before going electric makes sense for me, I bought my cars in 1998 and 2003 and both were 10 years old.....the annual cost of them is now peanuts, would be a huge investment before I go electric.

 

[willie.macleod]

Yes the very cheap running isn't going to last forever but there are very few EV drivers that think it will. Make the most of it while you can.

It feels a bit like running big V8s on LPG back in the day, lots of doubters but plenty of folk were able to do their own calculations/conversions and saved a good bit of cash. Limited range for most LPG conversions, uncertainty about fuel availability en route - deja vu with EVs! Road pricing will doubtless continue to change but your last sentence about making the most of it while you can is spot on.

 

[tom-madbiker]

I still do lpg all my vehicles 56ppl tank up the yard happy days all of them are at least 20 years old

 

[GKQ]

We pay road user charges here in NZ on diesel cars I just bought 10,000km worth at $750 so 7.5 cents per km. Diesel is cheap at the pump $1.50 litre ( 75 pence ) my suv does 8 litres per 100km ( average over 32,000km ) so $12 + $7.50 =$19.50 per 100km.
If I used electricity in the new Volvo XC 40 suv at it's max range of 400km for 78kWh battery ( assuming 100% charge efficiency and car really does what the manufactures say , would they lie to us?? ) = 19.5kW per 100km @ 36.8cents per kWh = $7.17 + road user charges $7.50,(which are going to be hiked as soon as govement can) so $14.67 per 100km.

The difference in purchase price $30,000 ( between a volvo diesel and BEV and after the NZ EV credit )
Difference in running cost $19.50-14.67=$4.83 per 100km
Say $15,000 in maintanace costs over 10 years for the ICE and assuming the ev never needs anything.
( Note of interest my Toyota HiLux has had $475 worth of repairs in 153,000km and my wifes Mitsubishi less than $800 in 253,000km ( both excluding services ) so $1500 per year is
probably way to high. )
$15,000/$4.83= 3105 x100=310,500 km to break even point.

As the Average car does 12,000km per year here in NZ ( from the AA ) I think we need to do some serious thinking about how cheap they are to run.


Please note: I'm not against EVs I've driven a few and they are great, but when all the real costs appear they will not be as cheap. Insurance will be more talking to my broker, he said insurance companys are ready to hike the premiums but have been asked not to, yet. He said repairs are very expensive and parts hard to get ( that might be because we are in the midle of no where )
As alot of people have said if you do a regulat specific distance to/or for work an EV could work out cheaper but every one needs to take a good long look at what they are doing.

Obviously my calculations and opinion.

For my use there is not an EV that suits me or my wife as we don't do regular journeys and I tow a digger/boat about.

Graham