A Little Pot Boiler

[norlander]

been burning wood to heat the the house for 12 years-only tar I've seen is on the road to repair the potholes-however-you are correct in that tars can form in chimneys/flues if unseasoned wood is burnt-moisture/humidity on longer flue runs I've seen tends to form on the outside of the flues and runs down to get burnt off on the stove top and the fumes go unoticed in the Gauloise cigarette smoke.
Logic/logical- two words not applied to life in rural France . Lackadaisical describes an approach to life in rural France.

Today: I was rolling along through the fog and came up behind a VSP-voiture sans permis crawling along in the mist-VSP are very low powered cars for which the driver does not need a driving license- they are usually driven by drunks who have lost their license-logical-nope, lackadaisical legal approach-yep.
Felling trees, my french mate had no ear or eye protection, was wearing trainers and tracksuit bottoms and his chainsaw was blunt, I was wearing hardhat ear defenders, ballistic trousers and boots and new chain on my saw. We both survived-even though he had 2 pernods and wine with his lunch.
I credit kemppi with commonsense-a brit in rural France would not survive without it-I'm sure he will move on to MKII versions as and when he sees fit.
Having said all that, there is value in pointing out potential pitfalls in projects/designs in posts because they are potentially read by many more people than actually comment and may be found by the uninitiated through an internet search.
If you have any pics of woodburners you have designed and built and can post them it could be useful-I had not really thought about fabricating my own wood burner until today-I'd be interested to know how they stand the test of time if mild steel-as the norm is cast iron.

 

[MattF]

Far as I know, welded steel plate is the way a lot of fires/stoves are built these days. Cast still rules for grates etc., but for the main assembly, I'm guessing cast is the less common material these days. I know the Charnwood we have is welded steel interior.

 

[Cobbs]

One of mine:

I made 3 of these, 2 for me, one for a friend. About 16 inches across, the two that I kept have kept me warm for a couple of winters. No grate as I only burn wood.

 

[Rrunnach]

ha ha nice one-if some of the doom n gloom chaps saw our wiring/plumbing/electrical sockets in the bathroom etc etc, not to mention boiler positions over here they'd die of fright-living in France is not for the fainthearted.Re the soot buildup-my burner flue was recently swept after 10+years and produced about a pint glass of soot-actually more like dust.
Nice job-enjoy your burner-I might steal some ideas off you at a later date. But wots this about painting it? -your job is done-it wants polishing by her indoors and blackleading each day in time for you to put your feet up in front of it with a glass or two of tipple.

At Mrs R's house in France area 86, a certificate is required to confirm chimney flu is cleaned annually, built in wood burner also inspected for any faults. In the event of a fire and, an insurance claim lodged, insurance company will want to see certificate from sweep. No cert, insurance walk, as they do.

Stating living in France aint for the faint hearted, is a tad OTT!

 

[KemppiFrog]

Thanks guys,
I think I said the flue was way out somewhere above. But my last post pointed out that it is getting changed. Quite right to mention probs for the un-initiated. I have been building stoves for 30yrs, over 300, but not counting. The thread I linked in my intial post has a few of them.

Norlander seems to have grasped the life style in France But the insurance cos. do require that you have the flues swept yearly by approved bods. This is typical jobs for the boys, very common here. Life is controled by the Ins cos. Even a wrecked car in your back field has to be insured. But the French take little notice of the regs.

Cast has to be good quality, plenty of cheap ones about that are prone to cracking. For steel, line the lower firebox with fire bricks. It evens the heating and protects from corrosion. While I was building for sale, I laterly used Cor-Ten, as I could get it at a good price. Much better resistance to problems.
KF

Missed Rrunnuch and Cobb's posts.
Nice one Cobb, is thata downdraft airwash inlet?

Rrun. There are 'logs' that you can buy that clean the chimney. Called 'Buch de ramonage' and they come with the certificate. I have yet to hear if an insurer refuses them.....

 

[Cobbs]

Thanks!

Yes, it's a downdraught - keeps the glass surprisingly clean. We like to watch the fire whilst toasting our toes. (Usually with our very own vodka! ) On the prototype I had an inlet at the bottom as well, as I thought I'd need it to get the fire started - I didn't.

Not found corrosion to be a problem.

 

[Rrunnach]

Rrun. There are 'logs' that you can buy that clean the chimney. Called 'Buch de ramonage' and they come with the certificate. I have yet to hear if an insurer refuses them.....

I've heard of these chimney clean logs here in the UK, never used them, so no idea how efficient they are?

The lad who does ours in France, is also the local plumber, between the two jobs, he thankfully makes a decent living!

Cobbs stove, is pretty cool designed stove...........................

 

[Cobbs]

Those logs are supposed to be used on a very regular basis, but from what I've been told, if your stove is burning efficiently, they're pretty much a waste of time/money. I also wonder what damage they might do to the environment - if they'll dissolve tar, they must be pretty strong...

Cobbs stove, is pretty cool designed stove...........................

Aww, shucks!

 

[Shox Dr]

with our very own vodka! ) .

Prey tell more

 

[Cobbs]

Prey tell more

It's good to have a hobby! In this case, the thread title is rather apt...

 

[Premiershipman]

When I have a bit more time on my hands I do intend to make a stove.
The two we have now are Clearview stoves - thick steel body and I think the riddling grate is cast iron, not sure on that though.

But I do fancy building one myself especially as both the clearviews were about £1000.

 

[norlander]

Far as I know, welded steel plate is the way a lot of fires/stoves are built these days. Cast still rules for grates etc., but for the main assembly, I'm guessing cast is the less common material these days. I know the Charnwood we have is welded steel interior.

thanks for that- more encouraged now, my cast grate burnt through after 15 years or so-welded up an M/S grate- lasted about 7 years-think cast iron is better for heat retention after fire has died??-but M/S much more scope for design etc-cast iron stoves are mainly panels bolted up.

 

[norlander]

At Mrs R's house in France area 86, a certificate is required to confirm chimney flu is cleaned annually, built in wood burner also inspected for any faults. In the event of a fire and, an insurance claim lodged, insurance company will want to see certificate from sweep. No cert, insurance walk, as they do.

Stating living in France aint for the faint hearted, is a tad OTT!

Yes right- my insurance says the same thing and no one takes any notice of it, it also says my fridges and computer need to be plugged in to surge protectors.You can buy a chemical log with insurance cert, burn it and send off the certificate if you are bothered.
Burn seasoned wood and you will be OK, if you feel wazzed before you have finished your first bottle of plonk- check the seals on your woodburner.
I've had woodburner/ paraffin heater/bottle gas heater heating my place for 10+ years with a Guardian Angel carbon monoxide detector system running and it aint beeped once.
When my mates fridge got blown in a lightning storm, the insurance rep asked if it had a surge protector- no sez my mate- think you mean yes sez the rep-OK yes sez my mate-OK- new fridge sez the rep.
Living in rural Francesuccessfully means leaving the anglo saxon culture behind and melding in to the gallic mentality-there are rules-but they are made by those idiots in Paris to follow-we are not Parisians.

 

[norlander]

One of mine:

View attachment 42436 View attachment 42437 I made 3 of these, 2 for me, one for a friend. About 16 inches across, the two that I kept have kept me warm for a couple of winters. No grate as I only burn wood.

Belting job-the glass in the door is the problem I was pondering-can you give details of the glass and fitting it-I can see the sealing rope-but fixing the glass in the door- fire cement type stuff?-and is it oven glass or something special -stove glass?.

No grate-always put a grate in as I thought it was essential for draught??

 

[norlander]

Those logs are supposed to be used on a very regular basis, but from what I've been told, if your stove is burning efficiently, they're pretty much a waste of time/money. I also wonder what damage they might do to the environment - if they'll dissolve tar, they must be pretty strong...

They don't dissolve the tar- I think they coat it with a barrier to prevent it from igniting, there are the logs and also packets of powder which do the same thing (or are supposed to do).I took down a chimney in an old french house (may have burnt coal as it was a town house) I could not gun the tar off with a kango hammer-its hideous-like hard liqorice but not brittle so it does not chip away easily.
But-as you say, burn seasoned wood and your stove will burn true and the heat produced will knock out deposits.
Put diesel in your petrol motor and don't be suprised if things get a little sooty and sweep.

 

[Cobbs]

Belting job-the glass in the door is the problem I was pondering-can you give details of the glass and fitting it-I can see the sealing rope-but fixing the glass in the door- fire cement type stuff?-and is it oven glass or something special -stove glass?.

No grate-always put a grate in as I thought it was essential for draught??

The glass is held in place with little tabs of steel, like turn-buttons, held in place with screws. It is specialist stove glass, readily available, cut to any size.

As far as the grate goes, coal requires one, wood does not. In fact if you burn wood in a multi-fuel stove, it's best to let the grate fill up and burn on a bed of ash,
if the draught came from under the fire, then the glass would get dirty really quickly.

 

[Cobbs]

They don't dissolve the tar- I think they coat it with a barrier to prevent it from igniting, there are the logs and also packets of powder which do the same thing (or are supposed to do).I took down a chimney in an old french house (may have burnt coal as it was a town house) I could not gun the tar off with a kango hammer-its hideous-like hard liqorice but not brittle so it does not chip away easily.
But-as you say, burn seasoned wood and your stove will burn true and the heat produced will knock out deposits.
Put diesel in your petrol motor and don't be suprised if things get a little sooty and sweep.

According to the blurb on the tub of powder that I bought for this, it should turn the soot into a grey powder that falls back down the flue and is then swept up along with the ashes - maybe there's more than one type?

 

[norlander]

The glass is held in place with little tabs of steel, like turn-buttons, held in place with screws. It is specialist stove glass, readily available, cut to any size.

As far as the grate goes, coal requires one, wood does not. In fact if you burn wood in a multi-fuel stove, it's best to let the grate fill up and burn on a bed of ash,
if the draught came from under the fire, then the glass would get dirty really quickly.

yep-my woodburner has a grate and an ash tray-i used to clean out the ash every day-than I got lazy and left it-made no difference and I only clean it out every couple of months or so-when I clean it, first burn blackens the glass at the bottom so know I know why thanks-the ash and dust was the reason some of the english folks round here got rid of their woodburners-because they cleaned them out every day or so-no need.
Some old lady round here makes a kind of soap from woodash and there is a cheese wrapped in woodash-might be from the Auvergne area.
I'm saving the slag chippings from my arc welding now-look out for fromage de soudeur in the supermarkets.

 

[norlander]

According to the blurb on the tub of powder that I bought for this, it should turn the soot into a grey powder that falls back down the flue and is then swept up along with the ashes - maybe there's more than one type?

Well, I've used both the logs and the powder packets over the last 12 years-some of the logs had the insurance certifificate thing.
When I finally got round to getting the sweep in, hardly anything came down after 12 years-just some browny black dust-hardly a dustpan full.So you could be right.
Occasionally, a sort of lightwweight carbon type stuff drops down in chunks-it won't burn-I chucked it in the burner but it may be one type of tar (goudron) see third pic along.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=g...6FsGm0AXSpoCYDA&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=885

It maybe the case that that brick chimneys are more prone than steel flues given that the brick surface affords easier purchase-the brick chimney I saw was about 80 years old-and it was not a single flue-it served a cooking range and a fireplace at least.I doubt it had ever been swept or chemically treated.It was also a three storey house near a river so probably a dew point at the upper part of the stack??

Soot is suie in french-ie the black powdery stuff, goudron is a different animal altogether and equates to bitumen-you cannot sweep goudron off with brushes, it builds up like cholesterol in an artery and reduces the flue.

 

[Cobbs]

It maybe the case that that brick chimneys are more prone than steel flues given that the brick surface affords easier purchase-the brick chimney I saw was about 80 years old-and it was not a single flue-it served a cooking range and a fireplace at least.I doubt it had ever been swept or chemically treated.It was also a three storey house near a river so probably a dew point at the upper part of the stack??

Also of course, almost all brick chimneys were built a good bit larger in cross section than modern flue liners. The job of the flue is to get the gasses from the fire away as fast as possible, giving the crap as little time as possible to condense out before it's gone - a smaller cross section means that happens more easily, up to a point. That's why it's best to run the fire hot, especially for the first 20 minutes or so, to heat the flue.