1975 Vauxhall Viva HC

[oli8925]

Nope, don't think so. Looks like this

Finally got a new gas bottle, hoorah! Man sized too.

Spent the next 4 hours getting angry, fiddling with settings and making holes. Eventually filled more than I made, and ground them down a bit before the light went. It's not quite perfect, I'll go over it again with a light flap disc when I come to clean up the entire wing and get it smooth and flat.

I then had a first attempt at making a template for the speaker/switch panel that will replace the dash tray on the drivers side. Ran into a few problems here, my first choice plan was to go vertically straight up from the front edge of the bottom lip, and then extend out to the top and sides to secure...just look at the photos. Problem here is I can only fit a 10cm speaker there, at a push, and I'd rather not give up the 13cm Phonocar speakers I already have. Not only this but the speaker is directed at my midriff and has a 95mm 'roof' above it.

The other option is to follow the line of the dash panel. This would allow me my 13cm speakers and there'd be no 'roof' over the speaker, but it will then be angled down at my legs. Either option will be better than the old set up of them being tucked under the dash pointing straight at the floor though.

 

[octo0072000]

Nope, don't think so. Looks like this

Finally got a new gas bottle, hoorah! Man sized too.

Spent the next 4 hours getting angry, fiddling with settings and making holes. Eventually filled more than I made, and ground them down a bit before the light went. It's not quite perfect, I'll go over it again with a light flap disc when I come to clean up the entire wing and get it smooth and flat.

I then had a first attempt at making a template for the speaker/switch panel that will replace the dash tray on the drivers side. Ran into a few problems here, my first choice plan was to go vertically straight up from the front edge of the bottom lip, and then extend out to the top and sides to secure...just look at the photos. Problem here is I can only fit a 10cm speaker there, at a push, and I'd rather not give up the 13cm Phonocar speakers I already have. Not only this but the speaker is directed at my midriff and has a 95mm 'roof' above it.

The other option is to follow the line of the dash panel. This would allow me my 13cm speakers and there'd be no 'roof' over the speaker, but it will then be angled down at my legs. Either option will be better than the old set up of them being tucked under the dash pointing straight at the floor though.

plenty of room for them in the doors???

i used to work at LAL vauxhall in the 70s i fitted lots of radios to to HCs used to fit them in the doors and on the back shelf radio/cassette was extra in them days

 

[oli8925]

Plenty of room but I don't want to make holes in the original door cards. If I can find another set or justify the price of making a set and getting them covered in vinyl then almost definitely. Already got bass orientated 5x7s in the back and will upgrade the mounting and possibly go 6x9 (more choice) to get better sound quality. I'm not looking for anything amazing by any means, but since going from the 5x7s driven from the HU to 5x7s on a low pass filter and 6" comps at the front driven by an amp, the improvement was disappointing to say the least due to the compromises in mountings.

 

[oli8925]

Sorry for the picture dump.

Sunny day, first day off in over a week, thought I'd see if I could continue with the welding. Plan was to do the easy stuff first to gain some confidence. So I started on the spare wheel well. Two small holes that I knew of, lets see where we get.

Wire wheel - starts to look a bit nasty but not awful

Forgot to take pictures of inside the wheel well, but it was rust over multiple layers of metal and a lot of sealant gunge, didn't quite look right. Looked frilly from the outside so started going at that.

A foot of sealant take out of the arch and various layers of metal and rust.

Filler started becoming apparent

All the metalwork and the what was left of it was put together was making me suspicious, so I explored...Oh

Less than successful day. I'm now wondering how much of this car I actually know. I've always suspected the front end was replaced, I'm now thinking of stripping everything back to get a proper look at the previous repair work.

Looking at the inner arch knowing what I know now, you can clearly see where it's been welded and that there's next to no penetration. The arch panel has been placed on top of the original, hence the mass of filler.

How easy/possible is it to gently remove the arch panel without distorting either of the panels, tidying them up, aligning them, and welding them back together properly and it looking right?

 

[Paul Dawson]

That's bad news to find all that lurking underneath.

I've spent the morning chopping up bits to practice with - so you're ahead of me on that score.

 

[Spot the welders dog]

Oli I feel your pain

How easy/possible is it to gently remove the arch panel without distorting either of the panels, tidying them up, aligning them, and welding them back together properly and it looking right?

Perhaps you should seek the availablity of a repair panel for the wheel-arch before hacking it off. If a repair section is readily available it would almost certainly extend past the section you wish to remove.
A linishing/fibre disk could be used to weaken the welds to an extent that the repair falls away: being mindful not to concentrate on one area at a time to minimise any distortion to the quater panel.

Winters coming so be sure to spray 'something' on the exposed areas of clean metal that you uncover 'cos it's easy for weeks to pass and a return to brownness..

 

[oli8925]

Unfortunately for Vivas, repair panels are next to non existent, especially the arches. Occasionally a rear quarter will come up on Ebay, there's a set of 2 door ones currently but they're so expensive it's not worth buying them to chop up. Perhaps a Viva being broken is a good option but they don't come up often and I'd imagine finding one poor enough to be broken but with good arches would be too good to be true.

 

[Spot the welders dog]

Ah poop - Have you got a plan of action in mind which won't break the bank?

 

[oli8925]

The only option I have is to be very gentle and cut off the existing repair arch, properly tidy up the underside, and do a better job at putting it back on.

There are discussions at the moment over how you should repair an arch. It seems people, myself included albeit by my dad, have been told that putting the repair on top of the existing bodywork to form a lap joint is the proper way to do it rather than trying to get the edges to meet for a chance at doing an 'invisible repair'.

Before I cut it off I'm going to fully investigate the inner arch as much as I can, if it's all neat, tidy and not rusty under there I might leave it and see if I can add some weld in the bits that are lacking. I'll have to completely rebuild the front of the arch where it meets the sill and the rear of the arch and quarter panel but that bit shouldn't be too hard to do.

 

[Spot the welders dog]

The only option I have is to be very gentle and cut off the existing repair arch, properly tidy up the underside, and do a better job at putting it back on.

Agreed. It has to come off, else you won't know how much rust it is hiding. I think if it was my decision I would follow your approach. but -
I would not start by cutting into the quarter panel directly above the welds. I would be more inclined to remove the 'repair' panel from the car in the first instance.
My thinking is that once removed there may be an inch or two of clean metal underneath before the rust starts. If that's the case then adding a strip to this lip may be an easier option to repair rather than cutting too deeply into the quarter panel from whence there is no return.

Butt or lapped. 'Tis of no consequence to anyone but you. if your intention is to enjoy the car knowing it to be clean & rust free for the foreseeable future - Get the rust out, weld it back together however you choose, paint & enjoy....

 

[oli8925]

I would not start by cutting into the quarter panel directly above the welds. I would be more inclined to remove the 'repair' panel from the car in the first instance.

That's exactly what I'll do with the same thinking. Should be able to carefully grind down the welds to take the arch off, or at least the outer welds. I'm not convinced the inner arch has been welded to the outer arch, it hasn't at the rear end, has a fair bit of movement between them and just seems to be shoved full of sealant. What I am worried about is the panels warping...

Started grinding off the underseal on the inner arch today, but really didn't get very far. It's been laid on very thickly and isn't the most accessible so nearly succeeded in grinding my face. As I'm tired and grumpy after coming off night shifts I gave up and stripped off the remaining filler on the outside instead.

What it revealed was a slight scrape running along the top of the arch and a deeper scrape further forward, so it looks like the arch may have been replaced due to accident damage rather than rust. The opposite arch doesn't look as flared (with filler) and a long standing chip in the paint points towards minimal filler. Fingers crossed it's only one arch that needs doing.

As for the scrapes, I need to remove the door step panel to weld another hole anyway and I'm hoping with this off I'll have access to carefully knock out the dents, or at least the deeper one. Although I'm not sure how the panels go together. With the dents and arch sorted, it should only need a skim of filler to finish.

 

[Spot the welders dog]

Oli, I would think I'd had a result - Looks like the arch panel is very reusable. All that remains is to see what lurks underneath

You would be very unlucky to introduce any distortion into the panel if you are patient and concentrate upon the welds themselves.
Perhaps an angle grinder fitted with a grinding/slit disk used side-on; just touching down on the welds - which have been kindly spaced by the previous attempt! - should be sufficient to pop them open.
Be cautious if using the angle grinder on a horizontal plane which could result in thinning the edge of the repair piece to a wafer.

Do you have access to a hot-air gun or small blow torch? Might be a laborious process, but useful to break into a mass of gunk before attacking with a power tool...

Not withstanding sounding like the local sexual health clinic, but have you thought about protection?
Any virgin metal that I expose which will need welding in future receives a coat of Zinc Phosphate: seems to keep the rust at bay until I can get back to it.

 

[oli8925]

Oli, I would think I'd had a result - Looks like the arch panel is very reusable. All that remains is to see what lurks underneath

You would be very unlucky to introduce any distortion into the panel if you are patient and concentrate upon the welds themselves.
Perhaps an angle grinder fitted with a grinding/slit disk used side-on; just touching down on the welds - which have been kindly spaced by the previous attempt! - should be sufficient to pop them open.
Be cautious if using the angle grinder on a horizontal plane which could result in thinning the edge of the repair piece to a wafer.

Do you have access to a hot-air gun or small blow torch? Might be a laborious process, but useful to break into a mass of gunk before attacking with a power tool...

Not withstanding sounding like the local sexual health clinic, but have you thought about protection?
Any virgin metal that I expose which will need welding in future receives a coat of Zinc Phosphate: seems to keep the rust at bay until I can get back to it.

I bought some really expensive high quality 1mm cutting discs for delicate jobs on the car so I was thinking of using those and doing as you say, grinding at a right angle to the weld using the edge of the disc.

I do have a hot-air gun, as in the paint remover type, but where do you mean apply it? To the back of the weld where the sealant is?

Yes, sorry I forgot to reply to that part of your last post, I spray everything in a healthy layer of zinc primer when I've finished. I don't actually find it that amazing at keeping back rust, but it doesn't have time to break through by the time I come to it next and take the primer off again.

 

[Spot the welders dog]

Sounds like a plan

Yep; only mentioned the heat process as a means to soften the under-seal. Attacking with a wire cup seems like medieval torture game where I always lose!

(ps: Glad you stuck the 13's on the Viva: Minis should be on 10's )

 

[oli8925]

Sounds like a plan
Minis should be on 10's

This is something I soon learned. The 13's were awful on it, and now I think they look pretty bad too. Strange thing that Mini, I love(d) it and will rebuilt it to look the same (except with 12x6 wheels instead of 13x7), but if I had another Mini, God forbid, I would never paint it that colour, have a twin DTM exhaust, sportspack arches, anything other that 10" wheels etc.

Can't remember if there's a picture or link in this or the other thread. It looked like this.

 

[Spot the welders dog]

I'm loathe to ask the fate of 'Baby', so all I'd say is she looks very pretty - without the massive boots of course!
You reminded me that I have not seen my 'baby' for months, so I took a trip and spent a little time with her yesterday.....Ahhh

Enough drivel from me; back to the Viva...

 

[oli8925]

Spot, it went from this

to this

Anyway...



Amazing. The first good day working on the Viva in god knows how long. Everything went to plan and better (other than my drill being useless).

Many thanks to Droopsnoot, Spot the welders dog and the others that advised I grind the welds down carefully so as not to damage the original arch behind. Turns out there's a good inch of it left, it was originally cut in the groove of the arch. So fantastic news there and I should be able to reuse it instead of the replacement arch I bought.

So now, what do people suggest I do about the inner arch? It was cut in line with the original arch, I guess it should come down further to meet close to the lip on the original arch. Do I try to make and weld an extension on to meet the arch lip as should be originally, or do I cut it a tiny bit shorter and make a filler piece to weld between the inner and outer, further up the outer than original? Or carefully trim back the original arch as desired leaving the inner there, clean up the inner, weld new outer then weld inner to new outer from the underside?

They weren't rewelded during the repair (I thought it was structural?) and just had a load of sealent gunked into the gap between replacement outer, original outer and inner.

I also poked at some rust and made a small hole where the door shut meets the roof gutter panel. Taking the entire gutter panel off just for that repair is going to be a massive pain but is there any other way?

 

[oli8925]

Didn't get as much done as I wanted to today but I did package more or less my entire shed of parts into watertight boxes, so hopefully no more rogue rusting.

Fully removing the arch gave me a good look at the sill. I knew it already but it's a bit messy, holes through to the underside and holes through to the inside just in front of the inner arch. So plenty to chop out to gain access to other areas. Need to grind off those triangular plates under the rear seat to get a proper look at how the panels join, then start making repairs. Only other thing I got done today was drilling the holes for the rear door switches, something else ticked off the list at least.

That frilly looking lip falling off was all sealant

I've taken a wire brush to it and doused it in zinc primer to try to keep off any more rust for the time being.

 

[ben8vgte]

Its good to see another being saved, keep up the good work
I do like the viva's infact most older vauxhalls, must fight the urge to buy a Mk1 cavvy. Will it be a the VBOA Billing show one day?

 

[oli8925]

It was there in 2011 and it will definitely be there again. 2014? Would love to go this year as per original plans as it's 50 years of the Viva, however that seems very very unlikely at the moment.

I'm now at the point where I need to decide how and in what order I'm going to repair bits, and my fear of cutting metal has returned

^Here's what I currently have. The pen over the arch is the damage from the scrape it once had. I'm wondering how to and how much I should repair and how much to leave to fillering smooth. Also wondering where I should cut the outer arch and make the weld with the arch lip panel.

^This is the nasty bit. I've cut out a bit more sill that had holes in anyway. The dashed area I've drawn out I was thinking of cutting out carefully to give me more or less full access to the inner arch-inner sill-floorpan area that's rusted. So then it's a case of working out what panel joins what panel and where, cutting out the rot and making repair sections of each panel to weld in then weld together. Good plan or should I do it differently?

This is the area from the inside

And once that's done; sort inner arch, weld on outer arch, weld up outer sill, then move onto repairing the spare wheel well, rear panel, inner arch (rear of) so I can make a repair for the bottom of the rear quarter. Sounds like a lot of work, and that's only one corner of the car