Why restoring/modifying cars seldom pays

[ibrooks]

I do it for fun and because it allows me to drive cars I couldn't afford to buy in good condition. Quite often some fool will say "you should do it for a living". The problem with that is that I'd never make a living out of it and I had a perfect example of why over the weekend.

I'm replacing a mis-matched set of gauges in a GTM with a Veglia set from a Jag XJ6. No wiring changes to speak of but the senders in the engine don't match the gauges.

Temp gauge was a bit fiddly but I managed to get resistance versus temperature values for a sender and found that one from a DOHC Sierra/Scorpio/Galaxy will do the trick and I can get an adaptor to screw it into the engine. But it took hours digging around on the web to find that out.

Oil pressure gauge..... Grrrrr. I needed a new "T-Piece" to allow both the switch for the light and a take-off for the sender. So I ordered one from a Mini supplier. Problem is it won't engage in the threads in the block. After much mucking about finding some other 1/8NPT fittings to try it in and to try in the block to confirm the block was "right" it becomes evident that they have left the thread too large and the smallest diameter on the new T-piece is too large. Poo! It's Sunday and I'm going to have to send the thing back and wait for a new one to arrive. Hang on - I seem to remember that the taps and dies that I got from Lidl or Aldi had an NPT one. Sure enough I've got a die. So on it goes and cut the threads a little deeper on the T-piece finally it's working.

The net result of this is that I've spent almost all weekend (OK I watched some TV and did some other small stuff) and what have I actually achieved? I've screwed two senders into an engine. Imagine if I was charging for this work! It would have been the best part of 8 hours for something that even I would have to admit should have taken an hour at the most.

 

[Swift&Bold]

That's the poo side of it but there are swings-and-roundabouts where the full day job you was dreading just seems to click into place and takes an hour.

 

[johnik]

I do it for fun and because it allows me to drive cars I couldn't afford to buy in good condition. Quite often some fool will say "you should do it for a living". The problem with that is that I'd never make a living out of it and I had a perfect example of why over the weekend.

I'm replacing a mis-matched set of gauges in a GTM with a Veglia set from a Jag XJ6. No wiring changes to speak of but the senders in the engine don't match the gauges.

Temp gauge was a bit fiddly but I managed to get resistance versus temperature values for a sender and found that one from a DOHC Sierra/Scorpio/Galaxy will do the trick and I can get an adaptor to screw it into the engine. But it took hours digging around on the web to find that out.

Oil pressure gauge..... Grrrrr. I needed a new "T-Piece" to allow both the switch for the light and a take-off for the sender. So I ordered one from a Mini supplier. Problem is it won't engage in the threads in the block. After much mucking about finding some other 1/8NPT fittings to try it in and to try in the block to confirm the block was "right" it becomes evident that they have left the thread too large and the smallest diameter on the new T-piece is too large. Poo! It's Sunday and I'm going to have to send the thing back and wait for a new one to arrive. Hang on - I seem to remember that the taps and dies that I got from Lidl or Aldi had an NPT one. Sure enough I've got a die. So on it goes and cut the threads a little deeper on the T-piece finally it's working.

The net result of this is that I've spent almost all weekend (OK I watched some TV and did some other small stuff) and what have I actually achieved? I've screwed two senders into an engine. Imagine if I was charging for this work! It would have been the best part of 8 hours for something that even I would have to admit should have taken an hour at the most.

i know the feeling oh too well,esp when building cars from scratch......never again.

 

[RonA]

I do it for fun and because it allows me to drive cars I couldn't afford to buy in good condition. Quite often some fool will say "you should do it for a living". The problem with that is that I'd never make a living out of it and I had a perfect example of why over the weekend.

I'm replacing a mis-matched set of gauges in a GTM with a Veglia set from a Jag XJ6. No wiring changes to speak of but the senders in the engine don't match the gauges.

Temp gauge was a bit fiddly but I managed to get resistance versus temperature values for a sender and found that one from a DOHC Sierra/Scorpio/Galaxy will do the trick and I can get an adaptor to screw it into the engine. But it took hours digging around on the web to find that out.

Oil pressure gauge..... Grrrrr. I needed a new "T-Piece" to allow both the switch for the light and a take-off for the sender. So I ordered one from a Mini supplier. Problem is it won't engage in the threads in the block. After much mucking about finding some other 1/8NPT fittings to try it in and to try in the block to confirm the block was "right" it becomes evident that they have left the thread too large and the smallest diameter on the new T-piece is too large. Poo! It's Sunday and I'm going to have to send the thing back and wait for a new one to arrive. Hang on - I seem to remember that the taps and dies that I got from Lidl or Aldi had an NPT one. Sure enough I've got a die. So on it goes and cut the threads a little deeper on the T-piece finally it's working.

The net result of this is that I've spent almost all weekend (OK I watched some TV and did some other small stuff) and what have I actually achieved? I've screwed two senders into an engine. Imagine if I was charging for this work! It would have been the best part of 8 hours for something that even I would have to admit should have taken an hour at the most.

Wouldn't like to guess the number of hours I've put into this & it's still not finished. As you say, it sometimes takes hours on the computer to locate some of the parts.
RonA

 

[zx9]

I do it for fun and because it allows me to drive cars I couldn't afford to buy in good condition. Quite often some fool will say "you should do it for a living". The problem with that is that I'd never make a living out of it and I had a perfect example of why over the weekend.

I'm replacing a mis-matched set of gauges in a GTM with a Veglia set from a Jag XJ6. No wiring changes to speak of but the senders in the engine don't match the gauges.

Temp gauge was a bit fiddly but I managed to get resistance versus temperature values for a sender and found that one from a DOHC Sierra/Scorpio/Galaxy will do the trick and I can get an adaptor to screw it into the engine. But it took hours digging around on the web to find that out.

Oil pressure gauge..... Grrrrr. I needed a new "T-Piece" to allow both the switch for the light and a take-off for the sender. So I ordered one from a Mini supplier. Problem is it won't engage in the threads in the block. After much mucking about finding some other 1/8NPT fittings to try it in and to try in the block to confirm the block was "right" it becomes evident that they have left the thread too large and the smallest diameter on the new T-piece is too large. Poo! It's Sunday and I'm going to have to send the thing back and wait for a new one to arrive. Hang on - I seem to remember that the taps and dies that I got from Lidl or Aldi had an NPT one. Sure enough I've got a die. So on it goes and cut the threads a little deeper on the T-piece finally it's working.

The net result of this is that I've spent almost all weekend (OK I watched some TV and did some other small stuff) and what have I actually achieved? I've screwed two senders into an engine. Imagine if I was charging for this work! It would have been the best part of 8 hours for something that even I would have to admit should have taken an hour at the most.

Whilst I take your point, if that was the day job and you specialised in one mark or model, you may well have had a big box of sender sand adapters accumilated over the years doing similar conversions.

 

[Parm]

It's a bit like repairs on modern cars, garages charge for every hour and by the hour for all time spent on a vehicle, this includes diagnostic work too, actual repair may only take a short amount of time

But there nothing like the satisfaction of accomplishing what you have with your case

 

[Kent]

Sometimes you take a hit when your charging. Sometimes you make a great margin and sometimes you break even

Experiance helps but if you can't earn from it then learn from it

 

[marlinspike]

We paid £300 for our rusty old Saab. If we had known how bad it was we wouldn't have bought it. But...we could have paid three times as much and it could still have been a rust bucket, and when it's done at least we will know it's solid and we did it ourselves.

To be fair though, most of the three years spent on it have been spent trying to undo rusty bolts rather than anything constructive. I still love it though.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Wouldn't like to guess the number of hours I've put into this & it's still not finished.

You're a Master of Understatement!

I've been trying to guess what she is by the shape of the rad cowling - an old Alfa perhaps?

 

[RonA]

You're a Master of Understatement!

I've been trying to guess what she is by the shape of the rad cowling - an old Alfa perhaps?

You're a Master of Understatement!

I've been trying to guess what she is by the shape of the rad cowling - an old Alfa perhaps?

Not quite that exotic, as English as apple pie & custard. It's a 1934 Wolseley Hornet special (think MG TC with a six cylinder OHC engine). What it should look like, someday (God willing)

 

[wookie]

Wouldn't like to guess the number of hours I've put into this & it's still not finished.

Too be honest it doesn't look like you've put many hours in at all

Been there and done that, it's scary how rapidly the hours soon add up, I must enjoy though as I've recently bought another "project" it's on the road at the moment but it's in for some major work this winter.

 

[Swift&Bold]

We paid £300 for our rusty old Saab.

What have you got?

 

[ibrooks]

Whilst I take your point, if that was the day job and you specialised in one mark or model, you may well have had a big box of sender sand adapters accumilated over the years doing similar conversions.

But who wants to be doing the same cars day after day? The fun is in doing different jobs on different cars and when you stray outside of the normal where you can just buy the parts and put them together time just disappears.

In fairness the biggest time eater was the badly made T-piece on this job and that should have just screwed into place.

 

[RonA]

Too be honest it doesn't look like you've put many hours in at all

Been there and done that, it's scary how rapidly the hours soon add up, I must enjoy though as I've recently bought another "project" it's on the road at the moment but it's in for some major work this winter.

You are off course totally right no problem at all, but then how would you know?
On my list, Chassis with broken cross member (joined by Tufnol block). Broken brake pipes joined with old acetylene hose. replaced. Hydraulic shock absorbers refurbished. Seized brake cylinders & master cylinder. knackered road springs & worn pivot bolts (remanafactured). Worn out engine, rebored, new Pistons, main & conrods re- white metalled. Engine water pump bearings replaced & seals renewed. Broken cast iron engine manifold repaired by Arc welding. New handbrake brake cables manafactured. Stainless steel exhaust. Procure seasoned Ash for timber frame repairs. Fettle steel front & back wheel arches. Had remade steering box obsolete ball bearings. To mention but a small fraction of what's been needed. Piece of cake really. Doubtless all achievable in your own lunchtime. I'll take your comments in the same vain in which they are meant to perceived.
RonA

 

[Wedg1e]

One of the guys I work with is talking about disposing of a Mk4 Spit that he started restoring in a flurry of enthusiasm about 8 years ago and gave up on - 8 years ago
From the description there's about enough metal left to draw the outline of a Spit but not one complete panel left on it. He went round cutting rot out without welding any braces in.
I thought about taking it on myself but part of the reason I bought a fibreglass sports car was so I didn't have to fanny about with bodywork - chips and scrapes aren't quite such an issue on a GRP shell.
As an aside I thought the car in bits up there ^^^ was an MGTC when I first saw it

 

[marlinspike]

We have a 1992 Saab 900 turbo, Sip. It's our third one. I don't think I would do another project that requires as much work again though. We are working on it on the drive so the weather stops us doing much over the winter. What was meant to be a couple of months off the road to do a bit of fettling has turned into a 3 year full resto. I think they call it project creep.

I think most of the profit from home restorations, if there is any, comes from rises in the market. If you bought a shed of a mk one Escort 10 years ago it would be worth a lot more now even if it had been in the garden for all the time.

 

[MrFluffy]

Its too many people's dream. To be paid to work on old cars and bikes, and compared to other fields the equipment and start up costs can be relatively small speaking. You don't need massive investments in tooling or jigs, its something you can do out of a small garage to start off with, and even if you invest in the more costly aspects with a wheel and casting equipment etc, you still will have your bread and butter work taken by someone else trying to start up with zero capitol costs in their shed.

Personally Ive been involved with a project to make replica quality parts. You start making something with investment & design costs up front, then someone just see's it on the market, buys one and sends it off and has bad copies made in china and undercuts your effort. Even if you have design changes and your widget is unique and obviously yours, the ip laws are so weak that it gets ripped off in a instant and you can forget getting china to do anything about it. Same for specialist rc car parts etc. So there's almost no incentive to try.

Some make a professional living at it, and I applaud them, but its a difficult game to make a living in.

 

[Burdekin]

My wife's worst nightmare is that I quit my job to go working on old cars. I've met too many guys over the years to know doing classic car bodywork is a hard way to make a living. I'll keep it as a hobby.

 

[wookie]

I'll take your comments in the same vain in which they are meant to perceived.
RonA

Since you obviously missed the smiley on the end of my comment I'll be a bit less subtle, I was being sarcastic, I know how many hours these projects swallow, started work on my pickup thinking just be a couple of months, a year and half later it's still not finished....

 

[ajlelectronics]

My wife's worst nightmare is that I quit my job to go working on old cars. I've met too many guys over the years to know doing classic car bodywork is a hard way to make a living. I'll keep it as a hobby.

Well I have a waiting list. Two vehicles waiting for full restoration and another for respray. Then I have two waiting for mechanical and welding work. Add to that the upholstery work and I should be OK for a few weeks! This is all Reliant related too. Big benefit is that local bodyshops are scared of fibreglass.