Computer problem

[Rocketman]

Isnt it strange that apparently even though W10 is so much better than any other OS on the planet, that MS are giving it away for free?

The fact that its being avoided by very large numbers of highly proficient home and small business users, is also something that seems unusual bearing in mind that its FOC?

Could there possibly be built in problems with this OS, related to security matters, that provide good reason for it being provided FOC, and are the root cause of the myriad issues that seem to accompany this OS?

My ancient XP Dell Precision is still working just fine, and cant see any reason for getting the very latest machine and OS, in the same way as I wont be trading my old Colchester Bantam for a finicky and costly CNC machine, which I would probably struggle to even switch on.

Business is always slow on take up on a new OS system the reasons are - it costs money and legacy software/hardware may not be compatible at the present point.

Whole host of reasons why you shouldn't be using XP but the most important one is if it's connected to the internet or takes and info on board from outside the unit it's not secure.

What a manual vs CNC machine and OS have in common is beyond me. There is zero option other than using CNC/CAM for a huge amount of work done these days.

I don't mean to spark a argument with your post Chris it's just how I see it from my experience.

 

[eSCHEn]

I've not paid for an OS for many a year now and I have the choice of ANYTHING Microsoft has ever made. I choose to have Win10 simply because I like it more and I get more work done on it than others. I work with servers from 2K - 2016 and I really like the interface on the new ones as well, can't get my head into the metro screen but it's a small thing really.

If you're still running XP and it has external access then you're VERY insecure. There hasn't been patches for it for a couple of years now and even those who are paying a extortionate amount for extended support will run out soon.

It can easily take the best part of an entire year to move just the desktops to a new OS. Especially one which is quite different from the last. That doesn't include the database machines, API servers, backup servers and so on. Basically unless you are a very small outfit (< 100 machines total) then there's usually quite a selection of OSs to see in an organization

 

[WorkshopChris]

I would rather pay to keep xp supported than to upgrade, all my software worked in xp. Dropbox support in xp ends soon.

 

[mr migwire]

im on an xp system right now, i have a windows 10 laptop down stairs and a cf19 toughbook with vista for radio programming etc. i keep an old ibm thinkpad with win 95 for some of the older radios. it also runs in dos but is very rarely used.
xp is like my old labrador, dependable and predictable and yes a bit slow and getting on in years, but i dont have the heart to put it down...

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I have - old laptop, XP. Because Epson wouldn't do a Win7 compatible driver for my [expensive] Epson scanner.
- new(er) laptop, Win7. Might upgrade to win10 and disable the inbuilt 'spy' reporting.
- desktop, Win7 Home 64bit. Tried to update to Win10 just to see before I do my laptop, but it won't allow it because it says my graphics isn't compatible and I'm b*ggered if I'm splashing out on a new card [unless the existing one goes toes up ]

Life used to be simple.

 

[500e]

MigW
You must be working with the same programs as me Some old MR Philips wont run on fast dos machines either

 

[eSCHEn]

XP and any other older OS is fine, I got more than a few half dead laptops and boxes here It's only when you expose it to a prolific vector such as the internet that you have the issues. If it's an offline machine that doesn't really interact much with other systems then it's not really an issue.

 

[mr migwire]

XP and any other older OS is fine, I got more than a few half dead laptops and boxes here It's only when you expose it to a prolific vector such as the internet that you have the issues. If it's an offline machine that doesn't really interact much with other systems then it's not really an issue.

this machine (xp) is on email, eblag, faceache and this forum. thats it as far as internet goes. the win 10 machine downstairs is for general browsing, googling etc.

 

[gaz1]

in my case shes on hers and im on mine both watching free films and net talking the other pc is for backups and for stuff not for the net also means i can play my games on an offlline pc

ive had to remove these from her pc

all the "telemetry" crap that Microsoft introduced with Win10 and decided to foist upon unsuspecting Win7/8 users.

Remove the following updates (if installed already)
KB3068708 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
KB3022345 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
KB2952664 Compatibility update for upgrading Windows 7
KB2990214 Update that enables you to upgrade from Windows 7 to a later version of Windows
KB3035583 Update installs Get Windows 10 app in Windows 8.1 and Windows 7 SP1
KB971033 Description of the update for Windows Activation Technologies
KB3021917 Update to Windows 7 SP1 for performance improvements
KB3044374 Update that enables you to upgrade from Windows 8.1 to a later version of Windows

is all that i removed and dont get pestered by windows 10

 

[xmetal]

MigW
You must be working with the same programs as me Some old MR Philips wont run on fast dos machines either

Or some old Mr Motorola ones too.

 

[Chris Stevens]

W10 works in pretty much the same way as a Tesco Club card, in that it provides a method of harvesting vast amounts of valuable data from users, whose value far exceeds any possible profits which would have been made from selling it commercially.

Most people simply dont seem to care about this sort of thing nowadays, and are not only happy for big brother to be be watching, but also go to the trouble of taking down the curtains so he can get an even better view.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Some may find this useful

http://bgr.com/2015/07/31/windows-10-upgrade-spying-how-to-opt-out/

 

[skotl]

Couple of points on XP, when connected to the Internet;

A number of you have said that you use XP on the web and that you've never had any issues. The thing is that there is a high likelihood that you would not know that you have a problem at all - PCs can be compromised and key loggers / mouse loggers used to capture details and send them silently back to the bad guys. Machines can also be compromised and used as "spam bots" (hijacked machines that send out thousands of these Nigerian "send me money" emails).
So, just because you haven't had a huge red window open up exclaiming "YOU'VE BEEN HACKED!" does not mean you have not been...

Second point is that mention has been made of paying for extended support for Windows XP; to be clear, this isn't an option for the majority of us - as eSCHEn highlighted, this is only available to very large corporates who have to pay seven figures for the privilege.

I've worked in IT for 28 years now and there is no way I would connect an XP machine to the Internet today...

 

[eSCHEn]

there is no way I would connect an XP machine to the Internet today...

Have you played the "How long before I get a worm?" game? Hook up a raw install of XP and see how long before you get something. My record is a little over two and a half minutes

Some of them are mighty ingenious in how they work. Using basically bugger all code they cause absolute havoc. From an old school demoscene guy I do respect the tiny size of the payload

 

[slim_boy_fat]

and there is no way I would connect an XP machine to the Internet today...

I never do, it's only fired up when I need to scan a photo or document. I have to scan it to a USB stick then from there onto my other machine(s).

 

[Chris Stevens]

I've not paid for an OS for many a year now and I have the choice of ANYTHING Microsoft has ever made. I choose to have Win10 simply because I like it more and I get more work done on it than others. I work with servers from 2K - 2016 and I really like the interface on the new ones as well, can't get my head into the metro screen but it's a small thing really.

If you're still running XP and it has external access then you're VERY insecure. There hasn't been patches for it for a couple of years now and even those who are paying a extortionate amount for extended support will run out soon.

It can easily take the best part of an entire year to move just the desktops to a new OS. Especially one which is quite different from the last. That doesn't include the database machines, API servers, backup servers and so on. Basically unless you are a very small outfit (< 100 machines total) then there's usually quite a selection of OSs to see in an organization

Can MS (or anyone who pays MS) remotely access an old XP system, and do pretty much anything they want with it?

It's not just about the data harvesting though, although that's 'part' of it.

It's actually much less sinister than big brother...

As the operating systems move forward, the support (i.e. operation in any way) of legacy programmes gets dropped. Y'know, the programmes you used to 'buy'.

As these are phased out, the shift is made toward cloud services, remote productivity app hosting and the like.

Good in a couple of ways - your data is held remotely so accessible 'anywhere', remotely backed up so safe from local computer failures, your suite is always up to date, etc.

Bad in a few ways too though:

Instead of purchasing a one off licence, you get tied into an ongoing monthly/yearly 'access fee'.

Your data is held remotely, by someone else.

'Accessible anywhere' means anywhere with the appropriate os and sufficient internet access.

Then there's the 'accessible anywhere (but by whom?)' aspect too...


So, this data harvesting - might not just be restricted to what particular version of rule 34 you subscribe to, but also what you put in your spreadsheets.

Surely the fact that the establishment can easily access data stored on the "cloud" is the central reason for this being pushed so strongly? Places like Menwith Hill are largely concerned with harvesting commercially sensitive data, rather than matters related to security or terrorism, and it seems to me its a good deal more cost effective and easy to get data from the cloud?

 

[Chris Stevens]

Couple of points on XP, when connected to the Internet;

A number of you have said that you use XP on the web and that you've never had any issues. The thing is that there is a high likelihood that you would not know that you have a problem at all - PCs can be compromised and key loggers / mouse loggers used to capture details and send them silently back to the bad guys. Machines can also be compromised and used as "spam bots" (hijacked machines that send out thousands of these Nigerian "send me money" emails).
So, just because you haven't had a huge red window open up exclaiming "YOU'VE BEEN HACKED!" does not mean you have not been...

Second point is that mention has been made of paying for extended support for Windows XP; to be clear, this isn't an option for the majority of us - as eSCHEn highlighted, this is only available to very large corporates who have to pay seven figures for the privilege.

I've worked in IT for 28 years now and there is no way I would connect an XP machine to the Internet today...

Thing is with W10 all the snooping stuff is built in, so I guess no need to worry about sending data to corporations, as this is a built in feature, and part of the reason OS is free................

 

[eSCHEn]

Can MS (or anyone who pays MS) remotely access an old XP system, and do pretty much anything they want with it?

Oh yes

 

[ronan]

Whats good anti-virus software ? Seeing as we are talking puters.

 

[WorkshopChris]

Do any of our more PC tech/network members know of any type of reasonable hardware firewall that could go between the fiber bt box and the home network router. Not to bothered about emails and attachments as xp machines don't access that any more but my limited knowledge says that it would be good to be able to hide ports with a firewall and just be able to set rules to allow specific programs access.
But i don't know if that is possible or a realistic option.
Or are some of the nasties so embedded in with a normal internet web page that its not possible.