Had to cut a wheel off an Alfa today

[Wedg1e]

Remember the old "spider" six ended wheel braces lol

Yep, still have my dad's old one somewhere...

 

[GKQ]

Have to laugh reading this, I had an Alfasud in the 80's and spent most of my time trying to stop parts falling off, never had problems with things not falling off.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Yep, still have my dad's old one somewhere...

I have two of them immediately to hand and use them regularly. Wheelnuts often removed with the windy gun, replaced by hand initially and spun most of the way on with the gun. Then the spider to finish. You can feel torque with experience, so I seldom get an actual torque wrench to wheelnuts.

 

[Kent]

HSE look away please, get a torch out

 

[normspanners]

FWIW the few times i've encountered wheels that were stuck to the hub or "seized" wheel bolts it's on a car i've just bought or when helping out a neighbour. Every "seized" bolt i've mangaged to get out in one piece had been overtightened to the point it had yielded i.e. rust had nothing to do with it. The necked threads were obvious once the copper grease and swarf had been cleaned off...
When wheel(s) were stuck to the hub and didn't come free from a well aimed blow i've always just put the bolts back in but only nipped up and moved the car back and forth a few times... kinda like dealing with a stuck clutch but less exciting than starting the thing in gear with the clutch pedal down and hoping it frees off before you run out of room

That doent allways work, I had one car, the guy a rep, had, only had dealer services on his car and needed a tyre because of damage to the rear tyre we tried everything to get the wheel off, lumps of wood and sledge hammer to the point where it was starting to damage things so I put the wheels bolts back in place but not touching the wheel and drove it hard (tyre warming it is called) for about 4mls still would not budge, in the end I did 3 handbrake turns on the 3rd there was a click and the wheel had freed.

I had a merc truck a few years ago its twin rears where again seized solid, and I had to do the same, did several hand brake turns and she was bouncing at the rear before they slackened.
I copper slipped them and have not had a problem since.
All the cars I service have copper slip on hubs and I have NEVER had a loose wheel. I also never have problems getting wheels off my regulars UNLESS they have been for tyres elsewhere.
As I have said many times in other posts I allways use my windy gun to run wheeel nuts up, I dont use special limiting sockets or turn it down, I just know my tools and when I torque up, the nuts go about 5 degs then click, every time.

 

[gordon stephenson]

Tyre changing garages know the problem caused by over tightened wheel nuts, but still continue to whiz them up and later "check" with a torque wrench. I know there are manufacturers rules,recommendations,guide lines etc that people in business must follow, but surely over tightening is as much of a problem as not tight enough,With bolts/studs streching and the danger of them snapping in service, Being just a private car owner/amateur mechanic In over 50 years I have always lightly greased the threads and only used the torque wrench between my ears, Never had a problem regarding loose wheels or trouble removing them.

 

[normspanners]

It is not the running up with a nut gun it is the hammering at the end that causes the problems when fitting a wheel nut/bolt, if a modern nut gun goes, clack clack clack the wheel WILL be over tightened. Prior to the clacks they are just an air motor, that will not, in its self overtighten.

 

[normspanners]

Air motor will NOT itself run a a cross threaded bolt, it will be hammering.
in 45 yrs I have never crossthreaded a wheel bolt

I've seen nuts going on where the hammer is working all the way down the thread.

if it clacks once or twice then there is obviously something wrong.

 

[normspanners]

If I heard a nut gun clacking on a wheel going on, I used to have a VERY stern word with my lads.

 

[Maker]

Why not wind it on with an air ratchet and finish with a torque wrench?

 

[gordon stephenson]

In the interests of safety, what was wrong with spinning the nuts up with the good old fashioned spider, Studs/bolts in good condition run up easily and quickly with very little effort, OK whiz the nuts off with a gun but refit by hand,

 

[normspanners]

Why not wind it on with an air ratchet and finish with a torque wrench?

You talkin air ratchet

or nut gun

I wouldnt use air ratchet for wheel nuts, its too slow, also would wear the mechanism out too early. because the air motor turn the ratchet mech but with a nut gun, the socket is in direct drive untill tight,---- then the hammer action starts

In the interests of safety, what was wrong with spinning the nuts up with the good old fashioned spider, Studs/bolts in good condition run up easily and quickly with very little effort, OK whiz the nuts off with a gun but refit by hand,

I have never had safety issues with nut guns it is the bit holding the gun trigger, that is the issue.

 

[garethp]

In the interests of safety, what was wrong with spinning the nuts up with the good old fashioned spider, Studs/bolts in good condition run up easily and quickly with very little effort, OK whiz the nuts off with a gun but refit by hand,

Too much effort for a lot of people, much easier to press and hold a trigger whilst thinking of other things and letting go after a while.

 

[dannyp]

nearly allways use windy gun to spin wheel bolts up, never hammer them up wth it just spin the thread in then torque them up with a bar

tho when morons have hammerd them right up i've had to do all sorts of nasty tricks to get the wheel off, had to scrap the french turd as the bolts were streched and new bolts at the correct torque kept on loostening as the thread in hubs was distorted

 

[skotl]

My old beemer, the kwikfit guy used an impact wrench to put the nuts back and stripped the locking nut.
Which I didn't notice, of course, till a few weeks later and the "garage" denied all knowledge.

Had to pay an actual garage a ton to get it off (after I had wasted £25 on these remove-yer-seized-nuts thingies from halfords).

 

[premmington]

Just out of curiosity, what sort of bar?

The wheelnut wrench supplied with a car is 'almost always' of a length that an average strength person can do up the nuts properly without straining themselves - the disco one folds so that you can only use the full length to undo them...

Disco? I have a Disco2! I have never seen the wheel wrench? What do they look like?

 

[Normsthename]

A couple of years ago my brother snapped the locking wheel nut so the tool would not work
The garage had tightened it to a stupid level
Luckily I managed to weld the largest bolt to the remains.
The weld broke a couple of times, but the last time it finally came undone.
We ended up with a 6 foot extension on the socket!
Garages should be hung drawn and quartered that over tighten wheel nuts!

Andy

 

[dannyp]

Just out of curiosity, what sort of bar?

The wheelnut wrench supplied with a car is 'almost always' of a length that an average strength person can do up the nuts properly without straining themselves - the disco one folds so that you can only use the full length to undo them...

if you really must know i normaly use ether an 18" or 24" breacker bar. but contary to popular belief you dont have to jump up and down on then end of them or fit a pipe.
can tighten bolts to torque with those bars just as accuratly as with torque wench. my most used torque wrench is actualy the 1/4 drive because a lot of enignes are now held together with shed loads of m6 bolts, ( sump, timing caseing, cam ladders and cam covers ) that aren't as tight as you'd ever think they should be over torque and it'll leack.

 

[normspanners]

can tighten bolts to torque with those bars just as accuratly as with torque wench.

??? HOW?

 

[ajlelectronics]

You can "feel" torque with experience. The length of the bar doesn't change that, you can still estimate how much force to apply at a particular point on the bar. Foot pounds remember!