Had to cut a wheel off an Alfa today

[brightspark]

its hardly critical on wheelnuts if u have half an ounce of savvy but wouldnt want u building an engine for me without one infact u build my own so no chance of that happening

 

[normspanners]

You can "feel" torque with experience.

After 50yrs of experience I would think that I have 'the feel' I very rarely use a torque wrench for most spannering jobs apart from fasteners that need accurately checking, but I could not tell you accurately what I have put on a fastening and I would defy any body to torque up stretch bolts with out a degree gauge because some do not actually get any tighter by an increasing torque figure. So I think to make a statement that you can accurately tighten something just with a breaker bar is flawed.
One thing about wheel nuts, is for me, the reason for using a torque wrench is that you have to physically get it and check each nut, which is a good method of making sure the wheels are tight, It is all too easy to use 24" breaker bar and overtighten IMHO.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Absolutely Norm, I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I was referring to non critical stuff, such as wheelnuts and general fastening. I have three sizes of torque wrench for when it matters. Had to buy a 1/4" drive wrench for Auto gearbox work. Lots of inch pounds specifications and my 3/8" only goes down to 120 inch pounds.

 

[normspanners]

I have my wheel nut torque wrench a good old reliable ratchet head, then a short norbar one for in wheel arches and engine bays etc then my engine building ones are 2 digital angle finders 3/8 and 1/2 absolutely fantastic bits of kit can even tell when you ratchet something up how many degrees you have actually tightened the bolt and also gives you the actual torque applied with each tightening, very handy if there is a slight thread problem, cropping up.

 

[dannyp]

thought we were talking about wheel bolts,

ye typical torque wrench that you use for them ain't that accurate. there are acurate enough for that job and thats enough but can feel the bar to within the same margin of error. the good kit dosent go outside the workshop and defantly not in the rain. for some reason when i'm changeing wheels it's allways in the rain.

when it comes to engine building have all the toys for that and use them and have there calibration checked often as there is somewhat differance in the allowable tolerances, and all the enignes i build are very very fit and very tough. last person to dought one ended up with a broken set of rollers

 

[colnerov]

Hi, I was told and have found, that you can tighten with a torque wrench but you can't check with one. Torque is a turning force, if you tighten a fixing to a set figure, then increase the setting by for example 10 lbs and then check it again the fixing won't move and the wrench will 'break'. So it tells you is that fixing is at the higher setting when it's not because you tightened to the lower figure. It just hasn't overcome the friction of the threads. But in the case of the wheel nuts the problem is they have overtightened so it's pointless putting a torque wrench on. Which leads to another question, What is their wrench set to? Different cars with different size studs or bolts will have different torque figures.

Colin

 

[Pid]

My mate is a manager at a quick fit place, I just laugh now when he goes to QC wheel bolts the guys gun them up then just put the torque wrench on a bolt for him to make it click, I tell him everytime how pointless it is.

 

[normspanners]

ye typical torque wrench that you use for them ain't that accurate.

How can you state that ?? mine is accurate i know coz I check it, when rallying we always torque to the same figure every service and can always tell if the driver has fitted a wheel and to which corner with the X brace out of the car, because it takes more undoing, with the gun.
You have to take all things into consideration, speed that a wheel was fitted etc adrenaline running through muscles, sore hands etc cold hands on X braces can make a difference, also whether the car is jacked up or the handbrake on because a wheel can be tightened with a torque wrench whilst free to spin, by holding the wheel and putting the socket the opposite side to the side you are holding , but you do NOT get that feel with a breaker bar, with a torque wrench it is the same every time, and it doesnt matter who does it it will be the same, I for one am happy with that.

 

[normspanners]

The main problem with overtightening is damage to the studs and it might not show its ugly head untill under stress ie when the car is cornering or breaking hard in an emergency maybe in a big compression or clipping a kerb etc when you want absolute control, and oh dear who's is that wheel ? at least a loose wheel will give you a warning if you are the least bit mechanically sympathetic !!

 

[premmington]

The main problem with overtightening is damage to the studs and it might not show its ugly head untill under stress ie when the car is cornering or breaking hard in an emergency maybe in a big compression or clipping a kerb etc when you want absolute control, and oh dear who's is that wheel ? at least a loose wheel will give you a warning if you are the least bit mechanically sympathetic !!

The above is fair point!

From a fast fit point of view!

Wheels that don't come off are less of problem than wheels that do fall off!

 

[dannyp]

some torque wrenches are the same every time, others arn't. the cheeper ones or the overpriced branded up ones. do vary put it on a load cell, cycel it 10 times, then let it off wind it back to the same torque setting and repeat. the results can be supriseing.

if it comes to changeing a wheel on the in a hurry during an event, the actual torque it's tightend to seems to bear littel resembalnce to how tight it ends up. but i'm thinking thats got more to do with some parts been hot.

the other intersting one with overtorqueing wheels, and norm just to define it for you picky ones, i'm not on about a few ft/lbs i'm mean FULL FT. it can make the wheel stick to the hub as it distorts the centerbore of the wheel and crimps it to the hub as the bolts try to pull down through the wheel.

 

[premmington]

some torque wrenches are the same every time, others arn't. the cheeper ones or the overpriced branded up ones. do vary put it on a load cell, cycel it 10 times, then let it off wind it back to the same torque setting and repeat. the results can be supriseing.

if it comes to changeing a wheel on the in a hurry during an event, the actual torque it's tightend to seems to bear littel resembalnce to how tight it ends up. but i'm thinking thats got more to do with some parts been hot.

the other intersting one with overtorqueing wheels, and norm just to define it for you picky ones, i'm not on about a few ft/lbs i'm mean FULL FT. it can make the wheel stick to the hub as it distorts the centerbore of the wheel and crimps it to the hub as the bolts try to pull down through the wheel.

The above is very good point!

 

[brightspark]

the moral of the story is get your torque wrench calibrated . i had mine done when i was doing a job at cummins diesel

 

[Robotstar5]

the moral of the story is get your torque wrench calibrated . i had mine done when i was doing a job at cummins diesel

I took mine into work and checked them on the calibrated test rig, they're still surprisingly accurate for something bought in the 70's!

 

[steveo3002]

My mate is a manager at a quick fit place, I just laugh now when he goes to QC wheel bolts the guys gun them up then just put the torque wrench on a bolt for him to make it click, I tell him everytime how pointless it is.

hard to believe that so many folk dont know any better than that

i jack my car up at home and the wheels in our other car , saves getting the sill stoved in and wheel nuts ruined , recheck em after a short drive