Wanted Engine for Old powerboat

[Keith 66]

Bit of an odd request here!
I am halfway through the major rebuild of an old racing power boat, built by SE Saunders back in 1905.
Now im looking for an engine to power her, now boats like this are rare, original enines rarer still.
I could go the modern diesel route but this reduces the value of the boat considerably once restored.
Im after anything that might be suitable, 2, 3, 4 or maybe 6 cylinders, Hp anything from 10 to 75 hp
Sidevalve, Ohv anything of any make that might look the part.
For example Gray marine built a lot of marine sidevalve units in the USA & these were based on Continental industrial engines commonly used in forklifts, welding generators etc. Other options explored!
Condition not important as i have good machining facilities!
Any of you lot got anything laying around that needs a home?

 

[blenkie1]

I have a 6 cylinder sidevalve studebaker engine sitting in a M29C weasel in a field. In a bit of a dilema with it as it will be getting restored at some point but was thinking about changing the engine for a diesel unit (6mpg from the studebaker) but not sure how big a job it is got too many things going on!

 

[Keith 66]

That would be a Champion 6, 170 cu inch or 2.7 ltr approx 70 odd hp. Probably too big for the old lady, be interesting though!

 

[wookie]

I could go the modern diesel route but this reduces the value of the boat considerably once restored.

How about a Merlin ? I know it's been done before but you won't regret it and it should add value to your finished boat probably too big for you...

 

[jerrytug]

Any pictures Keith? Sounds a fascinating boat. Is that Saunders of Saunders-Roe who made the cross channel hovercraft?
Best of British finding a 1905 engine. What HP and weight? I've seen a few old speedboats with Ford Pilot V8 sidevalves, but a later era really.

I still love the Napier Sea Lion in the Maritime Museum in Greenwich from a record breaking speedboat.

Miss Britain 3, first boat to do 100mph on salt water.

 

[penfold]

Rover ioe 6 might look suitably vintage, or a flathead Ford v8; I think you'll have to be really lucky to find a contemporary engine for it that isn't either a complete wreck or very expensive. I know a chap with a similar craft, a vintage hydroplane, who's been looking for a Napier Lion for a decade or so without success.

 

[MattF]

Might be worth mentioning the amount of space you have to shoehorn an engine into.

 

[dannyp]

some old tractor engine ?

got an ioe 4 cyl rover here that cant decide if we are useing or not

 

[Tinbasherdan]

I have a 6 cylinder sidevalve studebaker engine sitting in a M29C weasel in a field. In a bit of a dilema with it as it will be getting restored at some point but was thinking about changing the engine for a diesel unit (6mpg from the studebaker) but not sure how big a job it is got too many things going on!

you could always donate the weasel to a good home I'd love one of those!

 

[jerrytug]

Some other things, apologies if your granny can suck eggs..

You need to choose the engine by working back from the propellor. Do you have any idea of the pitch and diameter of the original propellor, and the racing speed of the vessel?

Being a racing hydroplane, I would guess that, at racing speeds, the front part of the hull, forward of the 'step', is supporting the weight along with the downward component of the thrust from the angled prop shaft?

How large an aperture is there for the propellor, that is the limiting factor of how much power you can put in the water.

I would hazard a guess that the shaft exits at an angle and is supported by a skeg, with a spade rudder behind it?

Is there a shaft in the boat yet, or even the original?

More info please!

And do you want her to barrel along like the original, or better? The fore and aft trim will be critical to top performance, as will lightness in general.

 

[normspanners]

How about this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1172cc-fo...317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25a8df1d7d

 

[brightspark]

How about this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1172cc-fo...317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item25a8df1d7d

that couldnt pull the skin of a rice pudding even a 1600 is minimum .i once had one in an aluminumum albatross

 

[normspanners]

Im after anything that might be suitable, 2, 3, 4 or maybe 6 cylinders, Hp anything from 10 to 75 hp
Sidevalve, Ohv anything of any make that might look the part.

EH HUM
swot he asked for--its a four n spec is
cylinders Straight 4
capacity 1.2 litre
1172 cc
(71.52 cu in)
bore × stroke 63.5 × 92.5 mm
2.5 × 3.64 in
bore/stroke ratio 0.69
side valve (SV)
2 valves per cylinder
8 valves in total
maximum power output 36.5 PS (36 bhp) (26.8 kW)
at 4500 rpm
specific output 30.7 bhp/litre
0.5 bhp/cu in
maximum torque 72 Nm (53 ft·lb) (7.3 kgm)
at 2500 rpm
specific torque 61.43 Nm/litre
0.74 ft·lb/cu3

 

[KemppiFrog]

Erik did a lot of research on his http://erikpam.wix.com/rnhistoricspeedboat and bought a Graymarine for peanuts before he found the Climax 2T that was original.
I helped out a bit over the build and am in the first shot 'helping' from the rear seat.
Andrew

He might be able to point you towards something. He has considerable experience in classic racing cars too.

I assume you are trying over on the WBF?

 

[brightspark]

EH HUM
swot he asked for--its a four n spec is
cylinders Straight 4
capacity 1.2 litre
1172 cc
(71.52 cu in)
bore × stroke 63.5 × 92.5 mm
2.5 × 3.64 in
bore/stroke ratio 0.69
side valve (SV)
2 valves per cylinder
8 valves in total
maximum power output 36.5 PS (36 bhp) (26.8 kW)
at 4500 rpm
specific output 30.7 bhp/litre
0.5 bhp/cu in
maximum torque 72 Nm (53 ft·lb) (7.3 kgm)
at 2500 rpm
specific torque 61.43 Nm/litre
0.74 ft·lb/cu3

i did notice thanks but it would be better if it had the power to at least get on plane maybee he has never had one before and doesnt realise what size needed

 

[colnerov]

Hi, I would think any racing boat like that would have been re-engined a number of times in the search for more power. Probably right up to the second world war, so any pre-war engine would be a likely candidate. However finding one and getting it rebuilt won't be cheap. My suggestion for what it's worth is an 'A' or 'B' series which had their origins in the 30s, so could probably be dressed up to look older with little effort. They are still fairly plentiful and parts are still available, in standard or tuned form.

Colin

 

[jerrytug]

Keith if you just want adequate power and lightness, with a thrilling exhaust noise and, in particular an Edwardian look, it might be sacrilege but you could take a sporty post war car engine, with its gearbox, such as an inline carburettor six pot, and make it look old.
What I mean is, paint the engine a suitable colour, then have every possible fitting and pipe and bracket made of shiny copper or polished brass, I don't think it would detract from the boat, most people would still go oooh! and you would be able to get service parts.
You will need a heat exchanger I presume and the associated pipework, it could all be in gleaming copper with a few dents for the historic patina

edit colnrov beat me to it!

 

[Keith 66]

The boat is long & narrow 27ft 6" loa x 5ft 8" beam & is not really a planing hull at all,when originally built she would have functioned in displacement mode with a speed around 12 to 15mph. Engines of the day were enormously heavy & of low output.
Given a more modern engine with up to say 50 hp she could be expected to run to around 20mph plus & would by then be running in semi displacement mode. I have the stern gear & she can swing up to a 15" dia prop

I dug the boat out of the mud of Benfleet creek 25 years ago & by then she had been derelict for 40 years. In the last 20 years i have had just one lead on a period engine that went cold.
She has had at least 4 engines that i know of. Last one just prewar was a ford sidevalve. The most likely & easy candidate to find would be a 1920's or 30's 4 cyl sidevalve lump.
A few years ago i acquired a pair of Meadows 4.5 ltr OHV sixes marinised by British power boat Co, unfortunately one of these was just too big for her being a tall longstroke engine, at 100hp it was almost certainly too much power as well!
I have mislaid the photos of which there are many but will post some up asap.

 

[dannyp]

how can 100 hp be to much power ? id be tempted to chuck a rover v8 in it

 

[the snooper]

how can 100 hp be to much power ? id be tempted to chuck a rover v8 in it

has to be strong enough to deal with the forces exerted on the hull, also depending on the prop, once its design maximum is reached extra HP will do nothing apart from waste fuel :d