WWII; We were bloody lucky!

[Wedg1e]

... it would end either in a watery grave or being shot in mid-air.

Dave

I suspect that the chances of being shot were actually fairly slim; fighters (on all sides) only carried enough ammo for a few seconds of firing, they would tend to aim for the engines on a bomber (as you can see in plenty of aerial footage that gets shown). I imagine that fire or impact with Mother Earth killed most of the crewmen. Not that any of the options is exactly preferable...

 

[marlinspike]

The inter war period is very interesting and to some extent you can see how Hitler managed to exploit the feeling of humiliation that pervaded Germany after WW1 and appealed to nationalist pride. However, I do think there is something in the German, and indeed Japanese, psyche that means they like rules and regulations and do not rebel against authority like some peoples do.

How long have we had the metric system imposed on us? Does anyone here know their height in cm's as opposed to being say 5'10"? I think you only need to look at things like the bear zoos in Japan and their attitude to whaling to see that there are serious differences between cultures. I remember my Art teacher at school telling me how he had fought in the east and the horror of coming across a jungle hospital and how the Japanese had dealt with the nurses and patients, leaving no one alive.

I had a holiday in Russia once and having seen the mass graves in Leningrad and heard about the bravery of the populace I can see why Putin is getting worried that he is now surrounded by wannabe EU nations, all perecived as being under the control of Germany.

 

[Wedg1e]

How long have we had the metric system imposed on us? Does anyone here know their height in cm's as opposed to being say 5'10"?

If you want to go down that route, consider that the 'Imperial' system of measurement probably had roots in the Egyptian system (Cubit)... so would you rather use an Arabic (Muslim) system of measurement or a European one?

 

[Wedg1e]

I remember my Art teacher at school telling me how he had fought in the east and the horror of coming across a jungle hospital and how the Japanese had dealt with the nurses and patients, leaving no one alive.

Ignoring our Western perception of the right or wrong of killing non-combatants, the world has a history of the conqueror completely annihilating their enemies. Given Japan's 'code of the warrior' that dates from the dawn of time, it's easy to see why they did what they did. It's easy to see that trait in the Muslim fundamentalists as well: kill your enemy - all of them, or die trying.

 

[daleyd]

The inter war period is very interesting and to some extent you can see how Hitler managed to exploit the feeling of humiliation that pervaded Germany after WW1 and appealed to nationalist pride. However, I do think there is something in the German, and indeed Japanese, psyche that means they like rules and regulations and do not rebel against authority like some peoples do.

How long have we had the metric system imposed on us? Does anyone here know their height in cm's as opposed to being say 5'10"? I think you only need to look at things like the bear zoos in Japan and their attitude to whaling to see that there are serious differences between cultures. I remember my Art teacher at school telling me how he had fought in the east and the horror of coming across a jungle hospital and how the Japanese had dealt with the nurses and patients, leaving no one alive.

I had a holiday in Russia once and having seen the mass graves in Leningrad and heard about the bravery of the populace I can see why Putin is getting worried that he is now surrounded by wannabe EU nations, all perecived as being under the control of Germany.

We were in St Petersberg in 98 along with a German ship and there was certainly no love from the locals towards the Germans, there were banners hung over the bridges as we entered the port basically telling the Germans they were not welcome. Having seen the extent of the war graves can fully understand why even 50 years after the war ended.

We (The rest of the Nato task force) had a great welcome and reception from the locals though.

 

[marlinspike]

With the metric system I was thinking more that people in the UK are less inclined to do what they are told, rather than thinking about the origins of the system. Certainly life in Germany and Austria seems more regulated than people in the UK would tolerate, and of course Germany has a long history of federalism so they don't really understand why people here get annoyed at being ruled from Brussels.

I remember on a visit to the Hermitage Palace in Leningrad being told that volunteers stood on the roof with sheets trying to catch incendiary bombs that the Germans were dropping. The workers existed on starvation rations and practically lived in the factories to maintain the effort against the Germans.

 

[roofman]

With the metric system I was thinking more that people in the UK are less inclined to do what they are told, rather than thinking about the origins of the system. Certainly life in Germany and Austria seems more regulated than people in the UK would tolerate, and of course Germany has a long history of federalism so they don't really understand why people here get annoyed at being ruled from Brussels.

I remember on a visit to the Hermitage Palace in Leningrad being told that volunteers stood on the roof with sheets trying to catch incendiary bombs that the Germans were dropping. The workers existed on starvation rations and practically lived in the factories to maintain the effort against the Germans.

Iff the current Russians have the same backbone of there fathers and they decide to back Putin and his latest war games the theres nothing that the west can do in terms of breaking them with embargos ect to bring it to a halt...Very tough Nation as Mr Adolf soon realised

 

[marlinspike]

Agreed. I think the EU should back off from encouraging the ex USSR nations like Ukraine to join the EU. It doesn't help us and just panicks the Russians.

When I was on holiday in Moscow years ago I got a few badges. Always loved them, so went a bit mad and bought 300+ more on eBay before Christmas. Bit disappointed there weren't many Space ones, but still quite cool:

 

[roofman]

Agreed. I think the EU should back off from encouraging the ex USSR nations like Ukraine to join the EU. It doesn't help us and just panicks the Russians.

When I was on holiday in Moscow years ago I got a few badges. Always loved them, so went a bit mad and bought 300+ more on eBay before Christmas. Bit disappointed there weren't many Space ones, but still quite cool:
View attachment 59569

very cool..

 

[Rocketman]

It's quite simple with Russia they don't want any NATO nations on their boarders. Why push it?

Would the USA accept Canada and Mexico joining forces with Russia on their boarders

 

[MattF]

I presume when you say "England" you actually mean the UK?

Whichever keeps you happy. Technically though, England is correct, as that is where the parliament responsible is based.

 

[MattF]

It's quite simple with Russia they don't want any NATO nations on their boarders. Why push it?

I seem to recall even some news channel classing NATO as a modern day oppressor/aggressor, (or something along those lines), within recent memory. Not actually much of a stretch of the imagination, with the pervading methods they employ. Who was it who said something along the lines of: Some of the worst atrocities have been committed through the best of intentions?

 

[wheresmejumper]

I seem to recall even some news channel classing NATO as a modern day oppressor/aggressor, (or something along those lines), within recent memory. Not actually much of a stretch of the imagination, with the pervading methods they employ. Who was it who said something along the lines of: Some of the worst atrocities have been committed through the best of intentions?

when the USA,the only country who used atomic weapons in anger,are exempt from prosecution/sanctions from NATO it sums up the intentions of the organisation

 

[Cobbler]

I suspect that the chances of being shot were actually fairly slim; fighters (on all sides) only carried enough ammo for a few seconds of firing, they would tend to aim for the engines on a bomber (as you can see in plenty of aerial footage that gets shown). I imagine that fire or impact with Mother Earth killed most of the crewmen. Not that any of the options is exactly preferable...

My Father in Law was a rear gunner in a Wellington, very lucky to survive as the fighters went for the rear gunner first, then the plane was helpless. He did 34 trips I think it was, before being shot down over Munich. All except the pilot parachuted out, he died when the plane hit the ground. F. in L. Spent his 21st birthday in a POW camp in eastern Poland.

 

[norlander]

Lucky my fanny. The Germans had initial successes-but the Brits stood firm and
1. cracked their codes
2. gained air superiority
3.penned their navy.
4. outspooked their intelligence services
5. ran several succesfull deception plans
6. fought their armour to a standstill and plucked an army away to fight again (Dunkirk)-they did not let us go-they could not close in for the kill because they had been hammered.
7. New weapons?- we found their sites and bombed em flat
8. We jumped in and nicked their Radar (Bruneval raid)
9. Tiger Tank-mechanical nightmare and no match for Brit 17pdr
10. D-Day- they were still looking the wrong way after D+1!!!!!
11. MG 42-massive ammo requirement and barrel changes
12. 88mm- in some theatres, signature after first shot meant retribution was on its way-so many crews did not fire
13. assembled a humungous army and amphibious force, including artificial harbours in Britain and arrived in complete suprise

We played the long game and picked em off bit by bit, we kicked their butt in WW1, and in WW2. Its not down to how flash you were with inferior less equipped enemies, its down to who wins-even if they were boring and the butt of jokes.
Britain-invented football-won one world cup.
Germany- invented invading neighbouring countries -lost both times.

Japanese army- defeated by Field Marshall Slim
Afrika Korps-defeated by Montgomery and others- and that was with stopping to brew tea.

 

[Rocketman]

How I have read history it could have gone either way. Lot's of if and but's on both sides. Lets just be happy how it turned out.

 

[wheresmejumper]

How I have read history it could have gone either way. Lot's of if and but's on both sides. Lets just be happy how it turned out.

Thats more along the lines of my belief

 

[Wedg1e]

My Father in Law was a rear gunner in a Wellington, very lucky to survive as the fighters went for the rear gunner first, then the plane was helpless. He did 34 trips I think it was, before being shot down over Munich. All except the pilot parachuted out, he died when the plane hit the ground. F. in L. Spent his 21st birthday in a POW camp in eastern Poland.

Ah well, the Wellie wasn't the only plane to be vulnerable without a tail-gunner - and even the Lanc was unguarded when attacked from below (wasn't it a speciality of the Me110?) - only the B17 really 'bristled' with guns

 

[CRB]

Ah well, the Wellie wasn't the only plane to be vulnerable without a tail-gunner - and even the Lanc was unguarded when attacked from below (wasn't it a speciality of the Me110?) - only the B17 really 'bristled' with guns

Eventually, the G had chin and belly guns added.

 

[Wallace]

Checkout the YB-40 Flying Fortress, that really bristled with guns!