normspanners
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No its says 5x1.5 meaning 5core cable for the 3phase I presume (which this is not )
and 3 x2.5 core for the 1ph
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No its says 5x1.5 meaning 5core cable for the 3phase I presume (which this is not )
and 3 x2.5 core for the 1ph
I would be pretty sure your presumption is wrong. 5 x 1.5mm^2 (ie lighting type ) twin and earth, or 3 x 2.5mm^2 twin and earth gives you 7.5mm^2 CSA, all on single phase, you just parallel up the wires. It would be a pian to wire in, but not unsafe.
normspanners
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Who would wire up an appliance with 5x1.5 or 3x2.5 separate wires to each terminal, Sorry I dont agree
also if it were one wire with 5 or 3 twisted conductors where do you by 7.5 mm cable coz I have never seen it ?
also it says cable / section required and to me a cable is a multi core unit ie live(s) neutral earth in one cable
also if it were one wire with 5 or 3 twisted conductors where do you by 7.5 mm cable coz I have never seen it ?
also it says cable / section required and to me a cable is a multi core unit ie live(s) neutral earth in one cable
normspanners
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cable required by manual ho5vv fg
http://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/technical-library/cable-specifications/ho5vv-f-cable-specification/
http://www.leadsdirect.co.uk/technical-library/cable-specifications/ho5vv-f-cable-specification/
yep, I had a look at the cable spec, it covers all sorts. Pretty much every sparky wiring houses will have reels of 1.5 and 2.5 twin and earth. They might not have a reel of 6mm so it's easy enough to use 3 runs of twin and earth in 2.5mm^2, which gives 7.5mm^2 of cross section on each live neutral and earth, or 5 runs of 1.5mm^2 twin and earth, which again gives which again gives 7.5mm csa. I've wired motors that way when I didn't have the right size cable to hand, and I've seen similar done before. Like I said, it's a pain, but it's not unsafe.
normspanners
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ho5vv f doesnt cover all types it is specific multicore not T&E
brightspark
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its quite acceptable to parralell cables up but its only mainly done in industry with armoured cables that are 2 large to manipulate . its not realy done on domestic circuits and quite personaly it looks a bloody mess
normspanners
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If an electrician wired up my cooker in 3/5 separate cables as a permanent instillation he would be asked to LEAVE----- no he would just LEAVE 
with his box following him
could you imagine the mess of wires, even as a stop gap I wouldnt have it, I hold many pieces of cables up to 16mm T&E and up to 4mm flex 'in stock' just in case and I am not an elecky
with his box following him
could you imagine the mess of wires, even as a stop gap I wouldnt have it, I hold many pieces of cables up to 16mm T&E and up to 4mm flex 'in stock' just in case and I am not an elecky
I agree with this.. Poor practice in my opinion
brightspark
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christ i carry up to 200 meters of 10.0mm and 6/0mm cable at any time .any electrician just buying it by the meter obviously is hard up or they rarely use the stuff
Same here... Plus singles too
normspanners
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Direct question to brightspark and drdeath
would you wire a 9.9 kw cooker in 2.5 ho5vv f in a very busy household as in the kitchen is flat out most meal times not just xmas.
would you wire a 9.9 kw cooker in 2.5 ho5vv f in a very busy household as in the kitchen is flat out most meal times not just xmas.
Norm, please don't get confused by my diagrams, they are wiring diagrams for my cooker NOT yours, I was just using it to show how some cookers can be wired to 3 phase.
Having said that the info on your cooker and in the manual is bl**dy confusing.
If an "electrician" turned up to do a job for me with short lengths of cables and not reels of the stuff I'd be worried wether they were qualified and up on the latest regs. In my opinion an electrician should be an electrician full time and not just a "sparky" who can do a bit of wiring, hell even I can do that !!! (no offence intended)
normspanners
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Thanks wookie
I am far from being confused by your post, I understand TOTALLY your quest, it has helped confirm some of my ideas and statements in previouis posts on this subject, if people could take the time to read it and take in what has been said, confusion wouldnt reign I do realise that people only lightly read and skip over a lot of points before jumping in and posting which can annoy the OP because he is following intently.
because it is HIS chosen subject at that point.normspanners
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Hi Guys did you see my question post 80 to yourselves?
If the manufacturer supplied a length of multicore cable to connect to the fixed wiring faceplate I would use it , as the manufacturer has deemed it correct for their appliance in that application. Otherwise I would use cable that would be rated suitably for the purpose. If that meant a trip to the wholesalers, then so be it. I would NOT be parralleling lengths of flex or T&E.
Bear in mind that diversity has to be applied to the rating, which may mean a cable smaller is required than just going off the basic Max rating
9900w / 230 = 43 amps. That would mean a 10mm cable
However with diversity....
10amps plus 30% full load current
So. 9900/230 = 43 amps
43 * 0.3 = 13amps
10 + 13 = 23amps
Therefore 2.5mm cable is accepted in this application as 2.5mm cable is rated to 27amps Max current.
Heat resistant cable would be used in this application.
Ok, then what size circuit breaker do you use then ?
I can never get my head around diversity, well I can, but I don't understand how it applies in this case... so what happens when you switch everything on at once ? either your circuit breaker trips or the cable is overloaded ? please educate me
I guess that's why I have a XLPE armoured cable good for 75Amps feeding my garage on a 63Amp circuit breaker, I'd rather the circuit breaker trips than the cable overheats.
Awhile back at work I had to re-wire a vibrating roller that had been blowing 15A fuses, so the user replaced the fuse with a bent nail and then the wiring overheated and caught on fire, one original damaged wire ended up being 20 plus wires replaced and a few hours work for me.
brightspark
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if u dont understand diversity for cookers or any other circuits with a varied loads that it applies to id sugest buy the Iet on site guide wiring regulations 17th edition for 20 quid of amazon and get reading up then all will become clear .work the loading out on all your household appliances . shower cooker lights emersion heater kettle washer tumble drier garage equipment and it will be well over 100 amp . u may have only a 60 or an 80 amp main cutout fuse but they rarely go due to diversity .if u dont understand it dont do it
Sidewinder
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I think that there is a lot of confusion with regard to terminology in this thread, plus the beloved harmonisation has got to it.
The cooker may well be an EU model, thus the manual may well have information that is not applicable in the UK.
Ergo, a true TPNE connection in a domestic kitchen.
As far as the N conductor carrying 3 times the load as I think has been suggested, then if you look at a cooker as a resistive load, which it basically is then the vector sum of the 3 phase currents even at full load will not be the sum of the currents due to the "phase rotation" to put it in simple terms, that is the peak currents will be 120 degrees apart.
Whilst the original issue of the cooker on the 2.5 is well off.
To size the supply for the new cooker, then there is a possibility that diversity can be applied, and, that the cooker will have inbuilt peak current limiting, perhaps simply by basic normally closed switches, that will only allow certain combinations of element to operate.
Don't forget once you have done the repairs you must do the requisite testing to ensure that the circuit is safe and that ADS will function correctly.
Then there is building regulations compliance depending on which area of the UK you are in, and exactly what work you do to remedy the issue.
Also, depending on how long the installation had been done etc. you could have comeback on the original installer for feeding the cooker point in this manner, along with the other wiring which is obviously non-compliant.
The cooker may well be an EU model, thus the manual may well have information that is not applicable in the UK.
Ergo, a true TPNE connection in a domestic kitchen.
As far as the N conductor carrying 3 times the load as I think has been suggested, then if you look at a cooker as a resistive load, which it basically is then the vector sum of the 3 phase currents even at full load will not be the sum of the currents due to the "phase rotation" to put it in simple terms, that is the peak currents will be 120 degrees apart.
Whilst the original issue of the cooker on the 2.5 is well off.
To size the supply for the new cooker, then there is a possibility that diversity can be applied, and, that the cooker will have inbuilt peak current limiting, perhaps simply by basic normally closed switches, that will only allow certain combinations of element to operate.
Don't forget once you have done the repairs you must do the requisite testing to ensure that the circuit is safe and that ADS will function correctly.
Then there is building regulations compliance depending on which area of the UK you are in, and exactly what work you do to remedy the issue.
Also, depending on how long the installation had been done etc. you could have comeback on the original installer for feeding the cooker point in this manner, along with the other wiring which is obviously non-compliant.
