HELP Painting Steps and TiI need to mings

[JonnyAlpha]

I applied a brush coat of Epoxy Primer last night and have just sprayed another coat. How long before I can spray a cellulose primer over the Epoxy and How long after the Cellulose Primer can I spray the Cellulose Colour Coat.

I had it in my head that you just had to wait for it to Flash??? But now I'm stuck thinking this is wrong?

HELP!?!?!

 

[Daz1968]

You need to check the data sheet for the paint, it will have the details of overcoating there will be a window that once you have exceeded it the paint will need flatting before overcoating

 

[JonnyAlpha]

You need to check the data sheet for the paint, it will have the details of overcoating there will be a window that once you have exceeded it the paint will need flatting before overcoating

Daz; Sorry I am in a panic, I wanted to apply a couple coats of Cellulose Primer straight away, well after its flashed? And once the primer has flashed I anted to apply the Top Coats OEW Fast Engine Paint, cellulose based.

 

[langy]

Daz; Sorry I am in a panic, I wanted to apply a couple coats of Cellulose Primer straight away, well after its flashed? And once the primer has flashed I anted to apply the Top Coats OEW Fast Engine Paint, cellulose based.

Thats a good recipie for distaster !!!

 

[JonnyAlpha]

Thats a good recipie for distaster !!!

So how long do I leave between coats,iv'e read that you can coat straight over Epoxy? and

 

[pedrobedro]

Why do you want to put cellulose primer over epoxy primer ?

 

[JonnyAlpha]

Why do you want to put cellulose primer over epoxy primer ?

because Epoxy Primer Shrinks, the Cellulose Primer will fill in where the Epoxy Shrinks (or so Iv'e been told?).

The Epoxy is Grey and my Top Coat will be Old English White, I was told to use a White Primer over the Epoxy to get a better colour on Top?

 

[JonnyAlpha]

You need to check the data sheet for the paint, it will have the details of overcoating there will be a window that once you have exceeded it the paint will need flatting before overcoating

The timings on the data sheet are a little confusing here the cured time is 7 Days so after that it needs to be keyed.

There is no Dry to Re-Coat time it just states:
"Provided the surface is free from chalking and other contamination prior to application, there is normaly no
overcoating time limit. Best intercoat adhesion ocurs, however, when the subsequent coat is applied before
preceding coat has cured. If the coating has ben exposed to direct sunlight for some time, special attention must
be paid to surface cleaning and mattening/removal of the surface layer in order to obtain good adhesion"

So the second coat should be applied within 7 days (cured time), it also states a Minimum to re-coat time of 10 Hours at 23 Degrees C, does this mean you have to wait 10 hours before re-coating or does this mean that if you re-coat within 7 hours you don't need to key? I have applied second coats of this Epoxy after about 30 minutes without a problem.

 

[langy]

So how long do I leave between coats,iv'e read that you can coat straight over Epoxy? and

Well you read wrong Epoxy needs a good hour before over coating, can't comment on Celly primer as havnt used it for at least 30 years

 

[langy]

because Epoxy Primer Shrinks, the Cellulose Primer will fill in where the Epoxy Shrinks (or so Iv'e been told?).

The Epoxy is Grey and my Top Coat will be Old English White, I was told to use a White Primer over the Epoxy to get a better colour on Top?

Epoxy don't shrink if you put it on right, your listening to the wrong people by the sound of it.
As for the filling in What joker told you that ???

 

[langy]

The timings on the data sheet are a little confusing here the cured time is 7 Days so after that it needs to be keyed.

There is no Dry to Re-Coat time it just states:
"Provided the surface is free from chalking and other contamination prior to application, there is normaly no
overcoating time limit. Best intercoat adhesion ocurs, however, when the subsequent coat is applied before
preceding coat has cured. If the coating has ben exposed to direct sunlight for some time, special attention must
be paid to surface cleaning and mattening/removal of the surface layer in order to obtain good adhesion"

So the second coat should be applied within 7 days (cured time), it also states a Minimum to re-coat time of 10 Hours at 23 Degrees C, does this mean you have to wait 10 hours before re-coating or does this mean that if you re-coat within 7 hours you don't need to key? I have applied second coats of this Epoxy after about 30 minutes without a problem.

What epoxy are you using ???

 

[JonnyAlpha]

What epoxy are you using ???

It Jotun Jotamastic 87.

 

[Daz1968]

I painted the bonnet on my mini with epoxy, I stripped it to bare metal, followed by a good coat of epoxy. This I applied a guide coat to and flatted with abranet to make sure no dents, I wouldn't use a cellulose primer over it.

 

[JonnyAlpha]

I painted the bonnet on my mini with epoxy, I stripped it to bare metal, followed by a good coat of epoxy. This I applied a guide coat to and flatted with abranet to make sure no dents, I wouldn't use a cellulose primer over it.

ok ill go straight on with the engine enamel.
The Epoxy has been on a couple of hours.

 

[langy]

It Jotun Jotamastic 87.

Disregard all I said then, I use Lechlar, much better

 

[ajlelectronics]

Disregard all I said then, I use Lechlar, much better

I have just used 2.5 litres of Lechler and can agree with this opinion. It goes on more nicely, 1.7 tip on HVLP, about 30PSI. Thinned to 10%. Dries to touch dry quite quickly and much faster to "handling" dry. Sanding the Jotun had to wait 3 days or more, the Lechler can be sanded next day.
Due to being distracted, I ended up with a very heavy coat in a small area. Next day it was the work of moments to rectify it. Bit more expensive, but I would not buy the Jotun again given a choice of the two.

 

[langy]

I have just used 2.5 litres of Lechler and can agree with this opinion. It goes on more nicely, 1.7 tip on HVLP, about 30PSI. Thinned to 10%. Dries to touch dry quite quickly and much faster to "handling" dry. Sanding the Jotun had to wait 3 days or more, the Lechler can be sanded next day.
Due to being distracted, I ended up with a very heavy coat in a small area. Next day it was the work of moments to rectify it. Bit more expensive, but I would not buy the Jotun again given a choice of the two.

Your absolutely spot on mate, it's a far better product for autos, there can't be that much difference in price can there ? I only pay £15 per litre for Lechlar.

I often see the word cheap used a lot here, cheap is good but good is not always the cheapest !!!

 

[Daz1968]

I think the problem is what's available locally as postage puts a lot on a few litres of paint. I used hb body and that was fine almost like a high build to sand didn't pick up on paper, cellulose on the other hand I wouldn't use again. The ISO free from jawel is also not easy to sand and is easy to wrinkle when over coated. I left it 24 hours before I did anything

 

[JonnyAlpha]

Disregard all I said then, I use Lechlar, much better

Langy;

Sorry;

I started the post just as I was about to start spraying, I made a fundamental mistake, I had a plan but at the last minute I hesitated.The post was written in a panic to try and confirm what I was about to do was OK, before I went ahead and mad a complete hash.

When I said I'd go straight on with the Epoxy I meant after the Epoxy had Flashed.
I applied the first coat of Epoxy on Thursday night, brush hammered which is a recommended method on bare metal. The second coat (First spray coat) went on at about 6 - 7PM. The first coat of Engine Enamel went on at about 10PM so the second coat of Epoxy had had a good couple of hours. After the first coat of Engine Enamel had flashed I applied a second coat probably 30 - 45 minutes after the first.

No adverse effects or reaction after spraying and I have just checked this morning and for my first go I think they are brill :-)

Your absolutely spot on mate, it's a far better product for autos, there can't be that much difference in price can there ? I only pay £15 per litre for Lechlar.

I often see the word cheap used a lot here, cheap is good but good is not always the cheapest !!!

As this post was done at the rush, I didn't say why I was using Jotun. I bought 5 Litres of Jotun (Comes in a 5Ltr Can Minimum) in order to do the underside of my Mini. Having read various posts on Epoxy I was never planning to use it for the upper (visible) body part, for that I will be using HMG or as you state Lechlar PPE (permitting).

last night I was finishing off the Subframe, again I had chosen Jotun for this task. I was also doing a set of Steel Wheels, I probably could have opted for an alternative Epoxy for the Wheels but I wanted to use what I had and its a good product.

I also did a couple of other suspension parts, Wheel Hubs and Brake Backplates.

So the products I used are as follows:

Jotun Jotamastic 87 + Standard Comp B Hardener Thinned to about 5% for Brushing and 10% for spraying with Jotun No 17 Thinners.
Engine Enamel 'Fast Engine Paint' Thinned to 10% for spraying.

I used a 1.8mm Tip for the Epoxy and a 1.4 (or 1.3mm I'll check) Tip for the Engine Enamel.

Anyway all seems to have worked out fine.

 

[langy]

Langy;

Sorry;

I started the post just as I was about to start spraying, I made a fundamental mistake, I had a plan but at the last minute I hesitated.The post was written in a panic to try and confirm what I was about to do was OK, before I went ahead and mad a complete hash.

When I said I'd go straight on with the Epoxy I meant after the Epoxy had Flashed.
I applied the first coat of Epoxy on Thursday night, brush hammered which is a recommended method on bare metal. The second coat (First spray coat) went on at about 6 - 7PM. The first coat of Engine Enamel went on at about 10PM so the second coat of Epoxy had had a good couple of hours. After the first coat of Engine Enamel had flashed I applied a second coat probably 30 - 45 minutes after the first.

No adverse effects or reaction after spraying and I have just checked this morning and for my first go I think they are brill :-)



As this post was done at the rush, I didn't say why I was using Jotun. I bought 5 Litres of Jotun (Comes in a 5Ltr Can Minimum) in order to do the underside of my Mini. Having read various posts on Epoxy I was never planning to use it for the upper (visible) body part, for that I will be using HMG or as you state Lechlar PPE (permitting).

last night I was finishing off the Subframe, again I had chosen Jotun for this task. I was also doing a set of Steel Wheels, I probably could have opted for an alternative Epoxy for the Wheels but I wanted to use what I had and its a good product.

I also did a couple of other suspension parts, Wheel Hubs and Brake Backplates.

So the products I used are as follows:

Jotun Jotamastic 87 + Standard Comp B Hardener Thinned to about 5% for Brushing and 10% for spraying with Jotun No 17 Thinners.
Engine Enamel 'Fast Engine Paint' Thinned to 10% for spraying.

I used a 1.8mm Tip for the Epoxy and a 1.4 (or 1.3mm I'll check) Tip for the Engine Enamel.

Anyway all seems to have worked out fine.

I'm not sure where you getting things like "brush hammered" from mate , I've never heard that before, I just lay on a light grabber coat and then normal coats 10 mins apart, 2 hrs later you can flat it, this is with Lechlar epoxy, Brushing the first coat on is gonna make any further coats as rough as a bears **** !!!
At the end of the day I don't know of any painter that uses this Jotun stuff which tells me something.