R-tech V Kemppi

[aniesigh]

Hi all, i'm in the market for an ac/dc tig set. it will be my first tig but i made the mistake of buying a cheap mig then upgrading to a Lincoln a year or so later, so i'd rather skip the first step this time!

Now when i first decided i wanted a tig i had abit of a look around on here and R-tech were getting some real good reviews etc and i basically decided that when funds allowed i would buy a 200 or 250A tig from them; but then lately since i new the money would be coming in soon i've been keeping my eye out for used machines on ebay and realised that the analogue controls of the R-tech units is actually quite dated compared to what the top brands are using and have been for a few years.
this is when i started to think, and look at other more known brand models (Esab, Murex, Lincoln, Kempi etc) and although they are alot more money they also seem very different in terms of operation.
I'm only 22 and plan to have whatever machine i buy for a long time so reliability and future-proofing are my main goals. i fear if i buy one of the analogue type r-tech units it will seem like a distant outdated model within a couple years.
Now R-tech do also do a digital 210A ac/dc tig currently priced at £1434 marked down from £1854 ('while stocks last' makes me wonder if they're about to change them? )
but then it still needs a foot pedal (analogue ones are having pedals chucked in for free at the moment, seems a frequent deal)

Kemppi MLS2300 with the acx panel option are up for £2994 from my local welding supplier, which is obviously alot more money!

So my long winded question(s) are:

will i notice any extra performance for the extra £££'s?

R-tech get good reviews but are these typically relative to cheap chinese sets?

i keep hearing good things about r-tech's warranty and how quickly they sort problems, but this is all good untill the warranty runs out then i'm paying for it! is the Kemppi likely to be more reliable long term?

Would i be better off hunting for an ex-demo Kemppi? if so what sort of money are they likely to fetch as shop-soiled/demo? or do dealers typically have much room for price movement on the marked price?

The other thing i like about the Kemppi is that the water cooler attatches to the machine and effectively becomes one unit whereas the R-tech will need a trolley and end up being abit cluttered.

I should mention that at the moment its only medium to heavy hobby use, but
as i say i'm only 22 and the amount of private work i'm doing is growing weekly so there nothing so say i won't be self employed in a few years and i could be relying on whichever machine i choose to pay my bills!

Sorry for such a long post, i'm just really struggling to make up my mind! last thing i wan't to do is buy a machine and regret it.

oh and lastly if anyone has any other suggestions i'm all ears, i'm not just tied to an R-tech or Kemppi machine!

Adam

 

[weldequip]

No contest. Buy the Kemppi. R-Tech is mediocre kit sold by men in suits

 

[Shox Dr]

^don't listen to him he's just bitter.

I've started off with an R-Tech, good set, only sold it because a MLS2300 ACDC with cooler came up at the right price.

Which one would I have if I have neither, good question. Both are pretty much faultless, the arc is better on the Kemmpi but as a DIYer I think you'll struggle to see that for sometime. Build quality is second to none on the Kemmpi but the R-Tech is not far behind.

As for controls: Although you can adjust the far end of a fart on the Kemmpi, for day to day use, it can be a pain in the ****, I much preferred analogue where you can at a glance see where everything is set and adjust anyone quickly and easily without having to read the manual.

The Kemmpi is only 230amp, R-tech do a 250. that's a lot of amps on hand for Ali

 

[cumbriasteve]

The only comment I can make really is that my R Tech MMA works well and is a nice machine, I actually bought two on special offer, one for the workshop and one for the van to be ill treated on site.

BUT..my model no longer exists, although Chinese and after sales is good and they do appear to be well sorted, it's still Chinese and they seem to change design weekly, what you buy today is an out of date model tomorrow, this may or may not be an issue.

I just don't view it like I view my Portamig, which was the same for a fair while before I bought it and is the same now 2 years later.

Not bothered about the men in suits though, they can wear a pink leotard for all I care as long as the machine is ok.

 

[Shox Dr]

Why does it matter if they change the box they come in. It's not a handbag

Too much of this Ooh ooh so and so have brought out a new model, the old one must be ****e.

 

[jonnyBMX]

i have recently got an Rtech tig 201 ac/dc brilliant bit of kit, as a beginner i struggle to find any difference between my Rtech and the kempi that i have access too, only thing is the kempi actually takes me alot longer to set up each time i change things.

tbh... unless you are really going to be doing some real heavy use etc and can warrant spending neally 3 grand id say the Rtech is the one for you

 

[cumbriasteve]

I never mentioned the old one would be s****

However if I was daft enough to drop a load on the portamig, I know I could buy the exact replacement part from the supplier, be it a switch or even the full case (handbag) it's nice to know the item you have still exists... and yes that option won't last for ever but with the Chinese machines it lasts for hardly any time.

I still think they are good machines ..as I originally mentioned

Only my opinion but I would think many others agree.

 

[aniesigh]

The Kemmpi is only 230amp, R-tech do a 250. that's a lot of amps on hand for Ali

They do, but i've pretty much set my sights on a digital panel type one and the R-tech digi one is 210 and the next one up is 300 i think.

Still seems opinions are split. i 100% agree that as a beginner i probably won't notice any difference in weld quality (i won't have alot to compare to) but i'm trying to forward think a few years to when i would like to think i will have well and truly mastered Tig'ing ally and can imagine theres a chance i will be using it daily by then if i end up self employed.

My head is saying Kemppi if i can stretch to one, but my wallet and impatience is saying R-tech.

Anyone know what an ex-demo Kemppi is likely to fetch?

Oh and Shox DR, if you started with an R-tech but bought a Kemppi because one came up for a good price that would indicate to me that the Kemppi is deffinately a step up.

As for setup times, i will spend most of my time using it welding only a few different materials/thicknesses hence i like the idea of a digital panel one as once its setup i can save it in the memory rather than spending ages twiddling dials for the first hour

 

[jonnyBMX]

personally, i cudnt warrant forking out 3grand on a tig welder but i dont use it everyday, for me the Rtech does everything i want it to and more!

but dont just buy the Rtech because you cant be bothered to wait till you can afford the kempi or you will just end up buying one in the end because thats what you wanted in the first place!

 

[pedrobedro]

No contest. Buy the Kemppi. R-Tech is mediocre kit sold by men in suits

Don't sugar coat it man, tell it like it is A Kemppi like the one you are looking at went on ebay earlier this year with the water cooler for a buy it now I think it was £1300 and if I had been in the market I would have bought it on spec, it looked new and was connected up for a demo so there are bargains occasionally.

 

[no idea]

I've got a Kemppi MIG and an R-Tech Tig (160AC/DC). I previously had an Inverter Fusion 200PHF which has a digital control panel. I learnt to Tig weld with it but got frustrated with always having to go through a menu system to make a small adjustment. The R-Tech is an analogue unit which I now prefer because it is so easy to tweak settings and you might find it a better system to learn with. Yes digital controls look great and the idea of being able to store settings etc. sounds good but for occasional use you need to consider whether the premium you pay for this is really worth it.

 

[aniesigh]

£1300! gutted i would snap someones arm off the machine itself letalone with a cooler aswell!.
Still can't make my mind up. think i'll pay some money into the bank over the weekend then have a ring around on monday see if i can find anyone with an ex demo machine and call R-tech and see if they can do a better price on the 210A digital machine and go from there. also keeping my eyes open on the bay hoping something will crop up
Cheers guys, any more input welcome

 

[ChrisJohnsSculpture]

Bear in mind that the main advantage of a digital welder is the ability to store pre-set programmes for specific jobs. Which is great for production welding of hundreds of similar assemblies which need to be standardised to en engineered welding schedule, but not that much of an advantage for one off fabrication. Aside from that you don't actually get many additional features.

Also a lot of the digital gubbins is rendered pointless if you use a foot pedal.

Getting a better brand or more capacity is one thing but a welder with a battery of industrial features isn't necessarily better for a small workshop.

 

[chunkolini]

Just a thought Rtech do seem to have a lot of 'shop soiled' and exdemo welders around the place.
Try dropping those words into your contact with them, and contact them by phone not email.
Buying last years colours or style, how awful for you.
So you know last season.
I try to buy everything like that.

 

[dannyp]

i run an Rtec 251 AC/DC

it welds well enough for me, plenty of poke there when needed i'm not a heavy tig user but when i am useing it its working hard.

reparing cyl heads the extra 50A comes in usefull done quite a bit of 3mm ali with it. needs watercooled torch really

 

[hotrodder]

Personally i'd say the Kemppi is in such a different league to Rtech that it's almost a different game. What it won't do is make learning easier or flatter a bad weldor- probably 99.9% of weld quality with TIG is down to the person doing the driving. That said the 'bells and whistles' offered by the Kemppi (and the other premium suspects) are more useful than what you get with the basic cheapies

The Kemppi is 5.7kVA for 40% @ 230A and will remain portable (one handed) complete with water cooler if you're prepared to pay the premium for the matching cooler
The 250A Rtech is 7.7kVA and wants 32A supply according to their site. It's pretty much double the weight of the Kemppi.
The digital Rtech is 6kVa and 35% @ 210A so while it closes most of the gap in the bells in whistles* dept it's less efficient and a tad heavier. I doubt that it has the same thinking behind the layout inside and fan on demand that all the premium (Kemppi, Lorch, Miller, Lincoln, EWM etc) kit offers- stuff that's designed to make 'em more resistant to ingress of dust etc which is probably the biggest killer of inverter kit.

On the digital versus analogue panel front... today was a mixture of ally and stainless jobs, both varying from 1.5 - 6mm. I probably spent more time swapping tungsten (sizes/preps) than scrolling through menus to tweak the settings. The only advantage to analogue panels IMO is that they're simple with regards to cost/repairability

* my 12 year old Lincoln offers pretty much everything (narrower AC frequency range and no job memory) that the digital rtech does and despite being 10A lighter at the top end has a better duty cycle (140A @ 100%, 170A @ 60%, 200 @ 40%) and will run off of 110V to boot

 

[aniesigh]

Ok Guys so much to think about,
Just an idea but was wondering if it could be worth just buying an analogue controlled R-tech 200Amp to learn with. the reason being i can see i would actually be more likely to play around with the settings and see how it effects the weld if they're quick and easy to change?
Although i'm also trying to forward think to avoid wanting to upgrade in a couple years i'm now wondering if that wouldn't be such a bad thing. AC/DC tigs seem to hold there money very well anyway.
Thoughts?

 

[chevy2]

I've had my r-tech ac/dc 201 for around 18months now,
It's an analogue machine,
I personally dont like the digital units because of the going through the program issue of changing one setting,
I've tig welded for nearly 20 years and used various machines over this period,
Millers, ceboras, murex and to be honest i'm happy with the performance of the r-tech,

The only real thing i dont like about it is that the fan runs constantly even on low amps,
If i bought a new welder i'd look for one with an on demand fan next time.

 

[kafeira]

There is no easy answers aniesigh.I will go with hotrod !
Rtech has good machines but personal speaking you cannot compare with a kemmpi.
kemppi fronius and lorch are for me top brands which r-tech cannot compete.
The have the research in way and the new things come from them then the others copy and do kits far far cheap and not in the same specs.
This is not means that you will purchase kemppi and this is an end of the story.
Definitely is far less chance to go something wrong with them that all.
All the thing is about how much you can afford.
If you able to afford kemmpi go for it is my advice.
I have fusion phf myself and I will highly recommend.
Personally bit by far R-tech.

Good luck with your hunding!

 

[no idea]

Ok Guys so much to think about,
Just an idea but was wondering if it could be worth just buying an analogue controlled R-tech 200Amp to learn with. the reason being i can see i would actually be more likely to play around with the settings and see how it effects the weld if they're quick and easy to change?
Although i'm also trying to forward think to avoid wanting to upgrade in a couple years i'm now wondering if that wouldn't be such a bad thing. AC/DC tigs seem to hold there money very well anyway.
Thoughts?

Just remembered as well that the display on my Inverter Fusion unit started playing up during the warranty period and now my Kemppi mig display is playing up so whilst digital control is great the experience I've had with them is that the displays don't seem to last too well.