Aluminium Fillet Tips

[Drains]

I hear ya and, points noted, but them bells and whistle dinging are only a benefit when one has mastered the fundamentals, you agree, Si?

I do agree that getting your head round the basics is far more useful than twiddling knobs and not really being sure if it's having any effect, than having to press the master reset button and putting it all back to normal. Been there, got the tee shirt.

 

[hotrodder]

Seems to be a lot of emphasis with regard to plant with "balance control" "cleaning action" ect.

I spent many years (as others on here have done too) TIG welding/manufacturing high tech components, using for example, BOC ADR 300/375 with no bells and whistles and, pass DT/NDT.

While I happily grasp new technology, I feel for a diy forum point of view, buy a bog standard plant, bells and whistles are a luxury you can only appreciate once you have mastered the skill of TIG welding!

Waiting to be shot down......................

I hear ya and, points noted, but them bells and whistle dinging are only a benefit when one has mastered the fundamentals, you agree, Si?

Ps, should read, basic fundamentals, becuase how would a user know the difference?

I agree with the basic fundamentals thing. Disagree with AC balance being 'bells and whistles'. Would you start everyone off with scratch TIG and a valved torch or do think people would find it easier (or at least less frustrating) to begin with a 'real' TIG and it's fancy gas solenoids/HF start etc?

AC balance has existed for decades and while it's not necessary for high quality ally welds 1) AFAIK it's virtually impossible to buy a new AC/DC TIG without it, 2) there's relatively few used machines around that don't have it and 3) all of those without it are HUGE power hungry things that many people in a DIY setting will struggle to feed and house

 

[Purnong]

A good exercise to get a feel for running the bead/the rythym etc IMO would be to run fillet weld along the inside corner of a piece of angle (or fold some sheet offcuts). Lets you practice the torch - wire relationship without worrying about burning away one piece etc. Once that's nailed set up a proper joint but instead of running beads just practice tacking.

Thanks Hotrodder, That's just the info I was looking for as well
I have just joined the forum, First post etc so go easy on me lads
I bought an AC/DC Tig a couple of weeks ago and having problems getting a fillet weld started, Once going it seems ok but just the start is frustrating
I followed the tutorial on here and that helped heaps but there is nothing like getting it from people that can explain it well
Now off to practice some tacking

 

[malcolm]

Thanks everyone (especially everyone who mentioned a.c. balance ). Turns out my balance was set to max clean! I've switched towards the other end of the scale and now the tungsten keeps a small ball and the arc directs into the corner. Can manage autogenous tacks now. I think the tungsten was getting too hot before.

Pernong welcome. Have you attempted autogenous welds on mild steel filters? That helped me with fillets - forces you to keep a really short arc.

Ooch - just tried a practice of the job - 1.5mm tube butted to 2mm plate at an angle. That's tricky and my shroud is too big - can only get 2/3 of the way around.

 

[malcolm]

Had a try with a practice bit but struggled to get into the corner. It's going up to Paul tomorrow as it would be a shame to mess it up at this stage.

 

[Seano]

Getting there Malcolm, if you look at your welds you will see that they look a little bottom heavy, ie. more weld on the flat or bottom portion of the weld than there is up the vertical wall, if you aim your tungsten slightly more at the vertical away from the angle of the fillet, then the force of the arc and a little help from gravity will naturally WASH the bead down to the toe of the fillet and the bottom portion of the weld, while I defer to tigpaul, hotrodder, langy and others, that was how I was taught, and it works for me me.

 

[malcolm]

I've been trying to bias the weld to the bottom sheet - the pipe is 1.5mm and keeps blowing through.

 

[Seano]

I've been trying to bias the weld to the bottom sheet - the pipe is 1.5mm and keeps blowing through.

What is the thickness of both materials Malcolm ?

 

[malcolm]

The pipe is 1.5mm and the sheet is 2.0mm and the hole hasn't been cut in the 2.0mm yet. The angle makes it a bit tricky with my big shroud too. Could do with a lot more practice.

 

[Rrunnach]

I agree with the basic fundamentals thing. Disagree with AC balance being 'bells and whistles'. Would you start everyone off with scratch TIG and a valved torch or do think people would find it easier (or at least less frustrating) to begin with a 'real' TIG and it's fancy gas solenoids/HF start etc?

AC balance has existed for decades and while it's not necessary for high quality ally welds 1) AFAIK it's virtually impossible to buy a new AC/DC TIG without it, 2) there's relatively few used machines around that don't have it and 3) all of those without it are HUGE power hungry things that many people in a DIY setting will struggle to feed and house

"Bells and Whistles" was a figure of speech, nor did I mention learners kicking off with scratch starts ect, I was referring purely to a bog standard unit/inverter, you can get them, single phase too!

I've used equipment often that has balance control facility, if required, and yes, I am very aware of this function being around for decades.

It got to post "12" before any mention of ac balance controls. Which confirms from OP user up to post 12 , had very little physical, practical knowledge of these functions, which takes me back to my comment. There is no substitute from good old practical training.

Maybe if plant had "pulse" facility (does it?) this would allow Malcolm more control to weld tube to sheet??

Cheers...........

 

[Moose-LT]

Malcolm, i have spare #5 and #6 shrouds if you'd like them. If so, drop me a PM and i'll send them to you.

 

[hotrodder]

"Bells and Whistles" was a figure of speech, nor did I mention learners kicking off with scratch starts ect, I was referring purely to a bog standard unit/inverter, you can get them, single phase too!

I've used equipment often that has balance control facility, if required, and yes, I am very aware of this function being around for decades.

It got to post "12" before any mention of ac balance controls. Which confirms from OP user up to post 12 , had very little physical, practical knowledge of these functions, which takes me back to my comment. There is no substitute from good old practical training.

Maybe if plant had "pulse" facility (does it?) this would allow Malcolm more control to weld tube to sheet??

Cheers...........

Yeah, i got that it was a figure of speech more than anything. I think we're talking cross purposes... i mentioned scratch start as an analogy, gas solenoids/post flow etc are to DC TIG what balance settings are to an AC/DC TIG was what i was thinking. Ignoring 'badge engineering' off the top of my head i can think of 2 maybe 3 AC/DC inverters that don't offer balance adjustments. They are a far cry from a basic transformer set though in that the AC balance (and frequency, sometimes post flow too) are either automatic and/or biased towards to EN and higher frequencies rather than fixed at what comes out of the wall

Personally i'd say it got to post 12 before AC balance got mentioned because the infomation everyone was responding to was evolving... why didn't you mention it in post #2?

Pulse was available as an option on Syncrowaves, dunno how popular it is/was but i suspect there are more Syncrowaves around without it than with. Personally i'm not a fan of pulse with ally... it'd certainly make it easier to avoid burning away edges/blowing holes but would also add a whole bunch of other variables that can hinder more than they help i.e. IMO it's one that really qualifies as 'bells and whistles' that should be left alone until the basics are mastered. Once they are, in the right application, pulse is a valuable tool

Malcolm, the 1.5mm tube to 2mm sheet... have tried you blocking it up so that the table isn't acting as a heat sink for the sheet? With regards to the cup being too big for the angled tube... just extend the stick out, you'll soon find out where the limit is as you'll get a greyish, manky mess instead of a nice clean weldpool when you go too far. Granted i would have been using a gas lens which makes a BIG difference as to how far you can go stickout wise but this was done with a #7 ceramic (the knurled cap is 50mm dia in real life)...

 

[Moose-LT]

Those are some beautiful welds, Hotrodder. Is a gas lens used for the purpose of welding in a tight gap, such as between pipe on an exhaust manifold collector or joints in a roll cage? Is this also where extra-long shrouds would be used?

I've ordered both because... i like to have everything associated.

Apologies for the thread hijack, Malcolm.

 

[Purnong]

Interesting discussion fella's
I have trawled the net looking for what the different settings such as AC balance and AC frequency do and I think I have a bit of a handle on it now
What would be good to know is how much one setting affects the other ie: if you change one should you change the other to suit? As well as the amps etc
One thing i noticed today while practicing fillet tack welds on a piece of ally angle was that the hotter the metal got the easier it was to start the tack and hence the weld so I was wondering how much preheating should be brought into the equation?
So much to learn about this TIG stuff but it is fun and rewarding when it all works

 

[Llundberg]

Thanks for all this! Whilst it isn't my thread, I need much the same help as Malcolm. I am having trouble with 1.6 mm vertical up fillet welds in particular, using 1.6 mm tungsten and filler with a Kemppi MasterTIG (plenty bells and whistles here). I am sort of OK with the other types of welds but that particular one has me beat. Lots of great advice I intend to try out.

 

[selcoweld1]

Hi, I find ali fillets really go easier with a gas lens as this allows you to stick the tungsten out a little further but as the gas lens directs the shielding gas down the tungsten you get good gas shielding. Also do you have access to an inverter machine as you can up the cycling frequency to pinch in the arc and get it more focused at the root?
Good luck!

 

[Rrunnach]

Personally i'd say it got to post 12 before AC balance got mentioned because the infomation everyone was responding to was evolving... why didn't you mention it in post #2?

Why didn't I mention this? Because it is a feature I do not need, I've managed very well without it for decades, even if there, it is not a feature at the fore for me.

None of my 16, off Lincoln Electric invertors have this feature either, this was a deliberate choice on my part, although, plant do have pulse, this choice was purely down to commercial needs.

I wonder when we will see MIG plant capable of STT features?? Now there is a bell and whistle feature, have you used STT process, it's nice!!

Cheers...........

 

[malcolm]

Hear what you are saying Rrunnach. If my kit didn't have the fancy features then they wouldn't have been set wrong and things might have worked more as expected. Planning on some training on AC TIG later in the summer and will write up what I find out again to help out other folk. Started to understand some of the frustrations now. There are a bunch of us who mess around on unimportant stuff in the garage and just don't do courses in a timely manner. You either get the work done with a few tips from here or you get Paul to do it for you (Thanks Paul ).

Interesting to find out what things do though. It's bad to compensate for bad technique using fancy features as you can do so much more when you have the technique. Same with any kind of welding.

Thanks for the offer of shrouds Moose. I'll buy some. I borrowed a lot of stuff but gave it back and I'm short now.

 

[shenion]

Malcolm, I have an even more ancient beast

It has a balance setting. Some 1/0 gauge wires in the side you swap to change. The manual does not even say how it changes it.

On your welds, they look a bit big for 1.5/2mm, could be part of the blowing through issue. Also any gap on aluminum and you will fight the edge burning back.

I do wish I had frequency control to better focus the arc. I read a lot about tip geometry. The flattened, tapered tip seemed to be best on these fixed frequency machines. It does ball up a bit. As yours is even a lower frequency, it will be harder.

I have also tried thoriated for AC as recommended on one site (not for inverter machines). It keeps a point better but seems to attract contamination and the arc is not as stable. Lantiated looks to be good to try next. I use pure most of the time.

I use a gas lens. It is huge but small at the tip, so harder to see around. You can lessen the gas flow so the argon does not cool the metal as fast. Since the gas flow is laminar, it works better with the tip extended to get in corners.

 

[hotrodder]

Why didn't I mention this? Because it is a feature I do not need, I've managed very well without it for decades, even if there, it is not a feature at the fore for me.

None of my 16, off Lincoln Electric invertors have this feature either, this was a deliberate choice on my part, although, plant do have pulse, this choice was purely down to commercial needs.

I wonder when we will see MIG plant capable of STT features?? Now there is a bell and whistle feature, have you used STT process, it's nice!!

Cheers...........

Not used STT (or any other fancy MIGs). I know STT kit will do double pulse and other fancy things that transform perfomance on ally and other materials but isn't STT itself (or at least it's origional intention) more about fixing the potential shortcomings of MIG/MAG with regards to open root work like pipe? I forget what's what with 'posh' MIGs as everyone has their own accronyms for the various pulse/double pulse programs

Curious about which inverters you chose... i thought all of the AC/DC Invertecs had user adjustable AC balance. All of their other AC/DC kit that i'm aware of have AC balance but it's automatic i.e. when you adjust the amperage the machine alters the balance settings for you

I still maintain that AC balance is as fundemental to AC TIG as gas solenoids and post flow. Yeah, not needed for X-ray quality work but the vast majority of kit has it so you need to know what it does even if you rarely adjust it...

Those are some beautiful welds, Hotrodder. Is a gas lens used for the purpose of welding in a tight gap, such as between pipe on an exhaust manifold collector or joints in a roll cage? Is this also where extra-long shrouds would be used?

I've ordered both because... i like to have everything associated.

Apologies for the thread hijack, Malcolm.

There's a gas lens demo here... http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=148488&postcount=4. They provide better shielding quality full stop but as said are bulkier than conventional collet bodies. Lots of ways to skin a cat so opinions differ... My own take is that i prefer a gas lens with more stickout over a smaller/longer conventional collet and cup nearly all the time. Most of the time i only take the gas lens off to fit a larger one. Only exception to that is when access is soooo tight that the bulkier gas lens prevents access/blocks view. Rollcages/tube to tube work rarely gets that tight, exhaust stuff occasionally does. Most of the time access is that much of a PITA it's repair work though i.e. having to weld somewhere where you'd never place a weld by choice and/or because there's stuff in the way that'd be added later when fabricating something

Bear in mind i use a wp20 torch, aircooled wp9 uses the same collets etc but is pretty limited amperage wise and with larger torches gas lenses add a fair bit more bulk to the torch head