JLR Workshop fun

[Cato]

This study of the decline in craft apprenticeships (undertaken in 1994) makes interesting reading for those so inclined. University of Southampton study.

It's also quite a sad thing that working, studying and learning to attain one of these is a thing of the past. I know and appreciate that times change, things move on etc. but it unfortunately always seems to involve a reduction in standards which does no one, particularly those studying, any good.

 

[Robotstar5]

No one likes a braggart. I bet they're printed on paper and not written onto vellum with a quill too.

I did a course a few years ago where I got an email "please find attached certificate for you to download and print"

 

[Cato]

I did a course a few years ago where I got an email "please find attached certificate for you to download and print"

That sort of carry on is why I left the cert number off the photo. I doubt it'd be much use now though.

 

[m_c]

No one likes a braggart. I bet they're printed on paper and not written onto vellum with a quill too.

Onto a what with a what?

(I'm just going to start running this time, never mind hiding behind the couch!)

 

[addjunkie]

We had a load of titles for the mechanical trades at Longbridge, fitters, machine tool fitters, jig & tool fitters, press tool fitters and millwrights (the heavy gang), all due to demarcation of jobs.
Example: to change an indexing gearbox the sparky would disconnect the motor, a fitter would unbolt it then a millwright would lift it out, the reverse the process/trades.

That would do my nut in, was a bit like that when I first went offshore, not quite as bad but that mentality….In the shipping world, if it needed done, you did it. Quite often the rigging too.

 

[Robotstar5]

That would do my nut in, was a bit like that when I first went offshore, not quite as bad but that mentality….In the shipping world, if it needed done, you did it. Quite often the rigging too.

I found out about demarcation not long after I started, me and an also new fitter could hear a motor running a bearing so we pulled the motor, stripped it and found the duff bearing, when the foreman came into the workshop we asked him for a new bearing. He told us to put it back together (with the duff bearing) so it could be sent to the onsite repair shop

 

[harveyp6]

I'm young enough that all my certificates have Vehicle Technician on them

I can't remember what the hell my certificates have on them. They're hiding in the loft somewhere. In all the jobs I had working for other people nobody ever asked to see them anyway.

 

[Mick Annick]

The Technician/Mechanic thing is a fairly new distinction, and depending who you ask, or what country you're in it flips.

Back in the day everyone who worked on vehicles, plant or machinery was either a mechanic or electrician. There were different levels of qualifications in both, along with the expected skills and experience variations. Then came the deskilling of trades and along with that different names and you got titles like technician and engineer thrown into the mix.

My C&G, NJC Craft cert etc all have mechanic on them, and (hubris aside) given how hard won all that was back then I feel both proud and quite protective of that title. Much more so than the engineering degree I got later on which (IMHO) is worth far less in terms of achievement and what it allowed/allows me to do.

When I started my apprenticeship in 1974 it was as a mechanic, and the local (Farnborough) technical college put me on the C&G mechanics course. At the end of year one they said I should move to the technicians course which I (and my employer) agreed to, only problem was they didn’t do it at Farnborough so I had a one hour ride / drive twice a week to Guildford. Obviously at the time I didn’t know it but one of my routes took me past @8ob ’s yard, though in 74 I guess he was still in nappies…

 

[addjunkie]

I found out about demarcation not long after I started, me and an also new fitter could hear a motor running a bearing so we pulled the motor, stripped it and found the duff bearing, when the foreman came into the workshop we asked him for a new bearing. He told us to put it back together (with the duff bearing) so it could be sent to the onsite repair shop

Worst I Iever saw was in dry dock….it was a Saturday, we had a fitter in assisting the ships crew. So because there was a fitter getting OT, there had to be one of each other trade too getting OT. All just sat moaning and drinking tea.

And that good folks is one of the many things that accelerated the decline of British industry! And whats really sad is those same folks would still argue they were right and black was white, because it was all management's fault.

 

[harveyp6]

When I started my apprenticeship in 1974 it was as a mechanic, and the local (Farnborough) technical college put me on the C&G mechanics course. At the end of year one they said I should move to the technicians course which I (and my employer) agreed to, only problem was they didn’t do it at Farnborough so I had a one ride / drive twice a week to Guildford.

I followed exactly the same path, starting in 1975. The mechanics course bored me because even at sixteen I'd been working on cars for three years and getting paid for it, but I really liked the college. Being moved to the technicians course sounded like a good idea, but it was a different college and I absolutely hated the place, so I used to bunk off most weeks. Got through the two years and took and passed the exams, but there was no way the company was going to pay for me to go back for the next year to get the FTC. (Full Technical Certificate)
I still can't remember what's on the certificates though, just passes with credit and distinction. The workshop foreman always b*ll*cked me for bunking off, saying I'd never pass the exams, so it really p*ssed him off when I did, so much so that he waited till I was away from my bench and left everything slung on there. He wouldn't give them to me personally like he did with everyone else. My wages were always short every week though.

 

[Ubique]

Chaps like @Ubique et al are technicians, not mechanics. They will survive and thrive in the PHEV and BEV era because their diagnostic skills in the 'non-mechanical' workspace will be even more in demand.

It's all these damned ones and zeros as my boys say.

Back in the days of 'Electronic Ignition' being a new thing vehicle manufacturers were using as a selling point, along with k-Jetronic fuel injection, I made a conscious decision to keep up to date and take any training on offer, along with 'learning how to computer', despite a few years away from the trades, I always kept an interest, because I find it, well, interesting.

I'm one of those 'technicians' that (due to ageing, not choice) is quite happy to leave the heavy lifting to the 'mechanics' - although I do still get involved in drivetrain & transmission issues but it's pointless and not cost-effective to have me replacing braking & suspension components.

I think you also have to enjoy the challenges of diagnosis, be able to think & work linearly - it's next to impossible to carry out a diagnosis by jumping around, you might get lucky, or it might be a 'usual suspect', but I've seen a lot of tech's caught out by looking at DTC's and changing a component - sometimes the same one twice, before going back to the concern and carrying out a linear diagnosis.

What I have found missing, is 'mechanical sympathy' - none of the tech's on their 20's, maybe also 30's, have any clue of how to prevent a thread stripping - or what to do if it does, the benefits of hand-slackening a fastener, or even how to use a file or hacksaw correctly - all basic engineering skills I learnt at school, along with soldering, heat treating, case hardening and how to sharpen or regrind tools.

I do also think that keeping your mind active and open to new stuff is a good way of enjoying life - and keeping healthy.

And of course.....

 

[premmington]

Back in the days of 'Electronic Ignition' being a new thing vehicle manufacturers were using as a selling point, along with k-Jetronic fuel injection, I made a conscious decision to keep up to date and take any training on offer, along with 'learning how to computer', despite a few years away from the trades, I always kept an interest, because I find it, well, interesting.

I'm one of those 'technicians' that (due to ageing, not choice) is quite happy to leave the heavy lifting to the 'mechanics' - although I do still get involved in drivetrain & transmission issues but it's pointless and not cost-effective to have me replacing braking & suspension components.

I think you also have to enjoy the challenges of diagnosis, be able to think & work linearly - it's next to impossible to carry out a diagnosis by jumping around, you might get lucky, or it might be a 'usual suspect', but I've seen a lot of tech's caught out by looking at DTC's and changing a component - sometimes the same one twice, before going back to the concern and carrying out a linear diagnosis.

What I have found missing, is 'mechanical sympathy' - none of the tech's on their 20's, maybe also 30's, have any clue of how to prevent a thread stripping - or what to do if it does, the benefits of hand-slackening a fastener, or even how to use a file or hacksaw correctly - all basic engineering skills I learnt at school, along with soldering, heat treating, case hardening and how to sharpen or regrind tools.

I do also think that keeping your mind active and open to new stuff is a good way of enjoying life - and keeping healthy.

And of course.....

View attachment 535312

Your quote @Ubique - word for word - "old git". "I do also think that keeping your mind active and open to new stuff is a good way of enjoying life - and keeping healthy."


I do agree with you - I am firmly in the "use it or loose it camp"....

 

[badabec]

I do agree with you - I am firmly in the "use it or loose it camp"....

I keep telling SWMBO that.