Renault Master 2005 Drive Shaft Oil Seal Replacement

[Smallfry]

I was Googling about this and came across this forum so I registered here.
First place to finally see some pictures regarding this as well.

We have 2010 MK2 (one of the last ones) 2.5 DCi 120 with the 6 speed and....yes the wobble.
Already changed both drive shafts (right hand side was bad anyway, no pain with getting the bearing out) and swapped the engine mounts which were also bad but the wobble stayed.
Came across this issue somewhere else as well but asside from a picture of the cup that was all the information I could find.
Finally a came across a seller who sells the cups and the diveshaft tripod. Now I received a set but the tripod doesn't fit on the driveshaft but looking at this the cup will be the issue?
Are all the cups from the 6 speed the same? Because I am at the point of sending the set back to the seller but if the issue is in the cup and the tripod would nog be the issue and the cups are the same then I would still give it a go I think?
Or do anyone knows the correct number of a set like this?

Sorry for all the questions

Hello, and welcome to the best forum on the net ........

All this is confusing, so pay attention So you have a side to side wobble, and NOT up and down, worse when under power ?

Firstly, your van @ 2010 should have the later PF6 gearbox, which has "normal" driveshafts on both sides, each with an inner and outer CV joint, which plug into the gearbox.

The tripod joint on the earlier PK6 gearbox, which they stopped making in 2006 is the one that sits inside the gearbox with the cup, so if you have this gearbox, it may have been swapped by a previous owner ? On the top of the gearbox next to the gearchange cable bracket is a sticker, which tells you the type and model of the gearbox, like this ......... This one is a PK5 (five speed) type 371

Check which gearbox you have . If it IS a PK all the cups and tripods are the same, as far as I know, but are difficult to find now. Do not bother with a used one.

Now, the later PF type driveshafts have inner CV joints that ARE the tripod type, but the tripod is smaller, which may be the ones you have, as they would be correct for the year and the later gearbox.

 

[FerdiNL]

Hello, and welcome to the best forum on the net ........

All this is confusing, so pay attention So you have a side to side wobble, and NOT up and down, worse when under power ?

Firstly, your van @ 2010 should have the later PF6 gearbox, which has "normal" driveshafts on both sides, each with an inner and outer CV joint, which plug into the gearbox.

The tripod joint on the earlier PK6 gearbox, which they stopped making in 2006 is the one that sits inside the gearbox with the cup, so if you have this gearbox, it may have been swapped by a previous owner ? On the top of the gearbox next to the gearchange cable bracket is a sticker, which tells you the type and model of the gearbox, like this ......... This one is a PK5 (five speed) type 371
View attachment 518391
Check which gearbox you have . If it IS a PK all the cups and tripods are the same, as far as I know, but are difficult to find now. Do not bother with a used one.

Now, the later PF type driveshafts have inner CV joints that ARE the tripod type, but the tripod is smaller, which may be the ones you have, as they would be correct for the year and the later gearbox.

Thanks!
I think I made the mistake by thinking that the PF6 had the same issue as the PK6 with the cups.
Also the set I bought says PK6 and PF6 but then this should be incorrect.

As far as I know the gearbox is the original one so it should be a PF6.

The wobble best discribes as side to side I think.
It gets better when you go to say around 3000 rpm and go to the next gear and then it stays away for a short notice until you let go of the throttle and accelerate again.
It's the worst coming from low rpm's.

 

[Smallfry]

Thanks!
I think I made the mistake by thinking that the PF6 had the same issue as the PK6 with the cups.
Also the set I bought says PK6 and PF6 but then this should be incorrect.

As far as I know the gearbox is the original one so it should be a PF6.

The wobble best discribes as side to side I think.
It gets better when you go to say around 3000 rpm and go to the next gear and then it stays away for a short notice until you let go of the throttle and accelerate again.
It's the worst coming from low rpm's.

Can you post a photo of the LH side of the gearbox, where the driveshaft connects ?

The PF (later) is not normally known for the side to side wobble, but it could be a driveshaft problem, as they have driveshafts with tripods at the inner ends

How many Kms has the van covered ?

 

[FerdiNL]

I will try to dive under the car tomorrow.
The van has done around 197.000 kilometers.
Think the left hand drive shaft is replaced around 20.000 kilometers ago or even less.
Right hand side a little longer ago as it went bad.
After changing the left hand side drive shaft it was a little better but came back.
Also the rear engine mount and gearbox mount are changed.

 

[FerdiNL]

Can you post a photo of the LH side of the gearbox, where the driveshaft connects ?

Gave the van a service this afternoon, was running late but see below:

And I also took a picture of the old drive shaft just to be sure:

I really think this is de PF6 gearbox and the advertisement of the seller for the cups was wrong with putting PF6 in it.

Then we still have the question why the van is vibrating

 

[FerdiNL]

Also looking on the internet for "PF6 Gearbox wobble" and there it says that the bearings will be shot.
The PF6 is known for having issues with the bearings but will that really cause a wobble? I can think it does but first time I ever had a car/van that does this.
Shifting goes smooth and the gearbox doesn't whine.

 

[Smallfry]

Also looking on the internet for "PF6 Gearbox wobble" and there it says that the bearings will be shot.
The PF6 is known for having issues with the bearings but will that really cause a wobble? I can think it does but first time I ever had a car/van that does this.
Shifting goes smooth and the gearbox doesn't whine.

Definitely a later PF6, so does NOT have the internal gearbox cup.

If you have checked all the usual suspects, wheel balance, top and bottom ball joints and track rod ends, loose or broken engine mountings, then IMO it can only be the driveshafts. I would not bother replacing any component parts of them, just fit new ones complete.

I found that non genuine engine mounts are too hard, and cause a lot of vibration.

I get all my replacement shafts from J & R driveshafts here in the UK, they are known to be good quality, and not expensive.

Sorry, I can't think of anything else that would cause the side to side wobble. It will not be internal gearbox bearings.

Gearbox bearings are a different issue, and are a well known problem, but easy to do once you have the tools, the other problem is gearchange stiffness, which again is an easy fix. If the gearbox makes any humming noise, it is time to change them, before any major damage, and always use the correct Elf oil. The other thing with them, is do not use 6th gear unless doing 110 kph or more, as it loads one end of the gearbox shafts too much, and never let it labour in 6th either.

 

[FerdiNL]

Definitely a later PF6, so does NOT have the internal gearbox cup.

If you have checked all the usual suspects, wheel balance, top and bottom ball joints and track rod ends, loose or broken engine mountings, then IMO it can only be the driveshafts. I would not bother replacing any component parts of them, just fit new ones complete.

I found that non genuine engine mounts are too hard, and cause a lot of vibration.

I get all my replacement shafts from J & R driveshafts here in the UK, they are known to be good quality, and not expensive.

Sorry, I can't think of anything else that would cause the side to side wobble. It will not be internal gearbox bearings.

Gearbox bearings are a different issue, and are a well known problem, but easy to do once you have the tools, the other problem is gearchange stiffness, which again is an easy fix. If the gearbox makes any humming noise, it is time to change them, before any major damage, and always use the correct Elf oil. The other thing with them, is do not use 6th gear unless doing 110 kph or more, as it loads one end of the gearbox shafts too much, and never let it labour in 6th either.

Thanks a lot!

The vibration stays with 2 sets of wheels so I can cross that.
Mounts are new Febi ones but the vibration stayed exactly the same.
Both drive shafts are swapped for new ones, no cheap rip off's as well so I can say that it isn't the drive shafts.
That is also the but bothering me that I would also assume that it would be a drive shaft.
Ball joints are replaced or still good, also had a couple of those done.

Vibration is the worst in 6th gear, is used from around 100 kp/h at our flat roads.
As soon as you press the clutch or let go of the throttle the vibration is gone instantly.

When cold gears can be a bit stiff but that is it.

Will send the cup back to the seller as also their advert is wrong.