shower trays, drains, and wall coatings?

[julianf]

i know nothing about this. at present, there is rocky soil with a plastic soil pipe running across it

im looking at this -

Imperia Graphite Slate Effect Rectangular Shower Tray 1000 x 800mm with Chrome Waste

Imperia Graphite Slate Effect Rectangular Shower Tray 1000 x 800mm with Chrome Waste

www.victorianplumbing.co.uk

Seems a whole stack of cash for a bit of plastic, but, it seems thats what they cost (?)

What do i do? Work out where the drain will be, and then pour a load of concrete? Does that thing just "sit" on a slab of concrete (self supporting in other respects)?



And then i was thinking this sort of stuff for the walls -

Orion Ledgestone Shower Wall Panel - 2400 x 1000mm

Orion Ledgestone Shower Wall Panel - 2400 x 1000mm

www.victorianplumbing.co.uk

again, it seems way more money than id like it to be. 3 sheets, £300, and then whatever trim i need to stick it together with?



I presume i use this sort of extrusion in the corners -

(i couldnt find it on the same site - that photo is from travis)

and then somthing like this along the bottom, to interface with the tray?

https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/bathroom-wall-panels/multipanel-wall-panel-profile-bath-and-shower-tray-seal-kit-white/p/128833

(£100 for a strip of unknown length?)


Really, i a) dont really know what im doing, and b) am shocked that the parts cost is quite as high as it is, so im wondering if anyone could advise?

thank you

 

[julianf]

ps this is to go in the room next to where i was working on that broken pipe last week. ive just finished up the floor finish in the adjacent room and am looking to use the same slate on the rest of the floor in the shower room -

It's an old building and the riven slate (FB market place deal - bought off a jcb driver who was demolishing some old units!) is in keeping with the slightly ropey look of the rest of the place!

 

[gaz1]

first off show us what you have with photos first

soil and and a soil pipe in they way is way too vague

i wouldnt advice slate in a shower room as you also need to seal the damn thing as well



that room had 3 coats of slate sealer on it and that was for just the bathroom walls you would need something better just for the shower area itself

 

[addjunkie]

Shower Wall Panels

Discover why shower wall panels are the smart alternative to using tiles in your bathroom. Browse our collection of shower wall panels here

www.multipanel.co.uk

This is the stuff I used, expensive but very good. Once the tray is set as required. There is a small ali angle goes around the bottom, siliconed in. Leave to set. Then dry fit your first board one, if the walls are not perpendicular you may need to scribe into to the corner mouldings. Once you are happy, stick it to the wall sticks like schit etc and a bed of silicone around all the trims. Dry fit next board, once happy repeat silicone and glue. Boards are heavy, dont try it alone. I cocked up the joint…join boards and glue in as one, they click together. I did the valve wall first as it was most difficult.



They do two types cheap and dear, fitting instructions for the dear stuff

https://www.multipanel.co.uk/media/xynehtvl/multipanel-installation-guide-walls.pdf

 

[frank horton]

I guess the orig floor is solid.....forget the tray and just tile the floor as a wet room.....
I put those panels in a UK rental....wont do that again....
with tiles u wont need all those fancy trims and sealant....
biggest advantage u have is a solid floor.....
as for the wall use cement board screwed to the substrate.....have seen em dot and dabbed but I prefer a mechanical fixing.....
did this last year for a holiday rental.....not my idea the little shower wall, it's the done thing in Greece...!!!

 

[Agroshield]

What do I do?

And then i was thinking this sort of stuff for the walls

Download the installation instructions from VP and follow them.

Have the item in your possession before final positioning and levelling of outlet pipe. The instructions say nothing about the trap and grate, so you could try asking VP for some photos of the item.

Do a dry run placing the tray on packers to final level and test-fit the gully.

From the outer corner of the tray, have some idea of where the glass will finish. That will tell you how much of the tray can sit under the cladding and base seal - the Travis photo has the tray pushed a long way under the face of the cladding.

Similarly, think about the interface of the base seal with the glass - draw on the Travis picture any screen so you can see how the three items (screen, seal, cladding) interact.

With the fake stone cladding, is it textured/undulating, like real stone? If so, that could make interface with the glass screen a bit messy - the screen will touch on the high points and you have to silicone the valleys. It is do-able, but fiddly.

You will need a soft joint between tray and wall covering and in the corner. Build in a place where you want movement to occur between surfaces or nature will decide for itself

 

[addjunkie]

Id suggest not shopping on line. Go to a biggish builders merchant or similar and touch and feel the wall boards, they vary a fair bit in texture and quality.

 

[Gareth J]

I recall you're eu-fait with lime and stuff.... considered tadelakt?

I like the idea. But wasn't confident enough to do it in my own. I liked the idea of shower board and have used it a before. But the price now for anything that doesn't look cheap and nasty is eye water. So went Hardie backer board and tiles.

 

[Gareth J]

ps this is to go in the room next to where i was working on that broken pipe last week. ive just finished up the floor finish in the adjacent room and am looking to use the same slate on the rest of the floor in the shower room -

View attachment 508889



View attachment 508890


It's an old building and the riven slate (FB market place deal - bought off a jcb driver who was demolishing some old units!) is in keeping with the slightly ropey look of the rest of the place!

Is that your floor? Or the slates as laid in the marketplace advert?

 

[julianf]

Is that your floor? Or the slates as laid in the marketplace advert?

Mine.

If I've done it wrong, I don't want to know!

I mean, there are many things wrong with the job that I do know about, but I'm not sure I want to know any more.

It's an old house and, without pulling it all down and rebuilding it all, there has to be compromises and, well, things done wholly incorrectly.

 

[Gareth J]

Mine.

If I've done it wrong, I don't want to know!

I mean, there are many things wrong with the job that I do know about, but I'm not sure I want to know any more.

It's an old house and, without pulling it all down and rebuilding it all, there has to be compromises and, well, things done wholly incorrectly.

Nope, looks good!

I know the feeling. Balancing what's worth keeping/renewing/managing decline always ends with a compromise.

 

[knighty]

another vote for turning it into a wet room!

I put down a shower try like that for my brother, onto an upstairs wooden floor so much easier than yours...

I didn't really like the fit of it, not that confident in it not leaking in the future (it might be fine, just didn't fill me with confidence

you'll need to dig out a bit of a void and have some wiggle room for the drain underneath, no matter what you do you'd never be able to get it millimetre perfect


for his, hole in the floor where the drain goes, fit the pipe/drain underneath, then fit the shower tray and hook the drain up with a bit of bent wire, stick some sealant around it then screw down into it through the drain cover pulling the drain up with the screws

pretty much the same way a sink/bath drain works... but you can't get underneath / see underneath to know it's sealed/seated right (maybe I'm just fussy)


alternative to a full wet room... could just do a wet room style drain in the shower with that bit of floor tilted?


we moved about a year ago, there's a shower with a kind of wet room floor in it, no tray etc.

it's been bodged, and it's not very pretty.... but it's really nice to use, they pretty much just slanted a wooden floor and put some kind of waterproof lino down and 6 inch up the wall

it's nice walking in/out with no shower tray

something like that might work well for you, means you only need to dig out a shower sized bit of concrete to slope it to the drain not the whole floor

 

[julianf]

Re wetroom -



That's what we want.



I asked about them years ago, thinking you just cast concrete, tiled it, and stuck in a drain, and was told I couldn't do that, and had to have a hidden sub tray thing.



So the part in my first post, so far as I can tell, is designed to sit flush with the floor surface, akin to a wetroom shower, but not actually be tiled over.



Sure it will not look the same as the slate but I figured if I had to mess about with sub surface trays, that seemed like I'd never do it, and just getting some off-the-shelf thing, whacking that in, and slating up to its edge would be the quick option, even though it wouldn't look as nice.



I couldnt really see why I couldn't make a concrete base, maybe sbr slurry it, stick in a drain, and slate the whole job, but I was told here, repeatedly, that I couldn't do that.



The thing is, the yard, the other side of the wall, has, basically, exactly that, so the soil will be wet on that side anyway, but I guess rainwater is less grim than grey water that may find its way though.



Except the manholes and old clay waste are all through the back yard anyway, so they're probably busy leaking grey water and worse anyway!

 

[julianf]

This is the doorway.

There will be a step up into the room.
Toilet is currently connected with a flexi, flushed with a bucket, and on a sheet of old ply.

Note the step on the rhs. It's about 2.5 brick courses (old imperial bricks)

This is the toilet end -

This is the shower end -

Ignore the dpc level. Rightly, or wrongly, I'm not fussed about bridging that at all. The rest of the house has no dpc at all. (Please take this as "I can't be bothered to get into endless discussion about dpc - please don't even mention it. Can you resist? I hope you can, you're old enough..."

I'm familiar with the house, and how the moisture is working in the build. Much of it has been stripped and done with lime to get rid of the problem areas, and I'm not fussed about issues in this specific area.


Again, old house, loads is wrong, it's never going to all be as you would do a modern house.

You can, kind of, judge the height of then soil pipe where it runs though at the rear left corner.

The rat trap is sitting on top of the pipe.

The soil pipe is not far off a usable height so long as the boss goes in the side of it.

The only thing upstream is a washing machine. There will / can never be a wc there. There just isn't the space.

There is a good fall on the pipe.


Two of the walls of the shower area are stud wall. One is thermalite block.

 

[julianf]

Ps old downstairs toilet was on 1" of concrete, over old cobbles, with no dpm at all, partially over the top of an old well for good measure!

Again, I'm looking for a solution, not a modern house.

I'm always so hesitant of posting photos like this as you get people, not realizing the constraints, saying "shouldn't be like that, should be like this" without taking into account that half of this was built multiple hundred years ago, and altering everything just is not possible.

 

[Turbo]

On an old house I would go for panelling. Much better at covering up uneven walls, faster and easier to fit and works out cheaper than tiles.

The stuff we have are pvc with a honeycomb centre. They are in 3m tongue and groove boards roughly 250mm wide. They go together like t&g timber with no sealant between.
They are held to the wall with dabs of silicon type adhesive.

There is a silver plastic edging strip along the edges and corners.

 

[angellonewolf]

has any one removed the silicone from the wall boards

i find i do mine every 2 years or even every year with tiles its easy as there hard and blades wont mark it but the wall boards when you scrap the mastis off im not sure any one done any

 

[addjunkie]

The tray you show in your opening post is a low profile tray designed to sit on a flat floor, when the surrounding floor is tiled there would be roughly 1/2 sticking up.

These type of things allow for not spot on drain piping in concrete or under floors when you sit the tray down.

90mm High Flow Chrome Shower Tray Waste + Flexible Shower Outlet Pipe

90mm High Flow Chrome Shower Tray Waste + Flexible Shower Outlet Pipe

www.victorianplumbing.co.uk

Instructions for the trap

https://images.victorianplumbing.co.uk/products/90mm-high-flow-chrome-shower-tray-waste-flexible-shower-outlet-pipe/instructions/e329.pdf

Looking at your pictures its difficult to visualise the layout with out a plan, but have you considered leveli g the floor at the level shown with the 21/2 brick rise and having the step at the door.

I get the old house bodge on bodge type thing over hundreds of years, my place is, or parts of it 1600s, but as it was such a bad bodge post a fire in the 60s I went back to bare stone, digging all the floors etc out for underfloor heating etc.

 

[angellonewolf]

i installed a shower tray a couple weeks ago on a build that was only done less than 2 years ago

a person had cracked the shower tray apon removing the tray they had an uphill slope to the drain made a big hole in cement and a line under the tray so there was no support to the tray itself and add to that the tray was dob and dabed so not even supported in a lots of places
i had to take off the first line of tiles lay a 18mm marine ply down with tile adhesive making it flat to add hight to get thr right slope buy a new shower tray with a better placement of outlet And use one of these low profile outlets (apparently the lowest you can get according to the plumber merchants and they guys in there are good )

Matt Black Extra Slim+ Low Profile Waterless Shower Waste for 90mm Trays

The Wirquin Slim+ shower waste is one of the most compact shower wastes on the market, making it an ideal solution for low profile shower trays or where space is a premium. Suitable for trays with a 90mm waste hole, a silicone membrane opens and closes to let waste water pass preventing bad...

www.buildandplumb.co.uk

not cheap though but worth every penny so i do not get problems later


it took days of farting abit to get all right with slope and make every thing solid

 

[gaz1]

This is the doorway.

There will be a step up into the room.
Toilet is currently connected with a flexi, flushed with a bucket, and on a sheet of old ply.

View attachment 508997

Note the step on the rhs. It's about 2.5 brick courses (old imperial bricks)

This is the toilet end -

View attachment 508998

This is the shower end -

View attachment 508999


Ignore the dpc level. Rightly, or wrongly, I'm not fussed about bridging that at all. The rest of the house has no dpc at all. (Please take this as "I can't be bothered to get into endless discussion about dpc - please don't even mention it. Can you resist? I hope you can, you're old enough..."

I'm familiar with the house, and how the moisture is working in the build. Much of it has been stripped and done with lime to get rid of the problem areas, and I'm not fussed about issues in this specific area.


Again, old house, loads is wrong, it's never going to all be as you would do a modern house.

You can, kind of, judge the height of then soil pipe where it runs though at the rear left corner.

The rat trap is sitting on top of the pipe.

The soil pipe is not far off a usable height so long as the boss goes in the side of it.

The only thing upstream is a washing machine. There will / can never be a wc there. There just isn't the space.

There is a good fall on the pipe.


Two of the walls of the shower area are stud wall. One is thermalite block.

first off it looks like you have a fall from right to left by the look of the brown pipe is this correct

if it is then id swap the toilet onto the right side

this is done withe drain in a celler with a pot shower tray



then damp coarse around the walls and on the floor as the floor also uses a french drain