Land Rover V8 restoration - what have I got myself into?

[OJCar]

sitting gnome-like under the vehicle

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

So I made a jig out of some scrap 50×50×5 angle and 5×40 flat bar, using some very dubious stick welds done in situ.

It references a couple of known good parts of the vehicle to make it easy to get lined up again.

Gives a reference for the radiator mounting which I need to reclaim and refit on the new dumb iron.

And the lateral position of the suspension mount.

It was at this point I discovered I don't have any 9/16ths blacksmiths drills, only Morse Taper...

Which kinda puts a dampener on things for the night as I need to drill a hole aligned to the existing mount to give a reference vertically and longitudinally.

You will note that my welding jacket is protecting the most important thing... An immaculate chrome swivel I absolutely cannot afford to damage in any way.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

I have just been sat having a ponder about this before packing the tools up.

I think I have a good sequence for repairing the chassis:

- take a template of the required side section,

- cut out a plate for the new bottom section and form it to match the template using the bending brake and slip rolls.

- cut the outside plate.

- remove all the deteriorated metal from the side,

- prep the good metal for welding.

- tack in the new bottom section, then working in flat position with the torch "inside" the chassis, do a full penetration weld along the bottom corner with the inside, and across the bottom by the engine mount.

- cut off the dumb iron section around the cross-member and trim the repair section to fit.

- position the repair section using the jig.

- weld the repair section in, doing the top from above, and the bottom from inside the chassis rail, again maximising the ability to work in flat position.

- take the jig back off for access.

- tack in the chassis side plate, so it's sat on top of the new bottom section and do a butt weld in horizontal position along the bottom, and an open-corner weld in flat position along the top, finishing with the unavoidable vertical welds at each end

- use the jig again to get the radiator mount positioned and tacked up.

- remove the jig and weld out the rad mount.

- repeat it all on the opposite side.

It all sounds kind of faffy...

But I figure by entirely avoiding doing positional welding from under the car, it will be much easier, much much faster, and give me the opportunity to easily inspect the root of the joints in the most awkward area.

 

[Porkypine]

Sounds like a plan, I'll watch with interest

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Hole drilled.

Stick Welding in situ may have been efficient, but did also result in accidentally tack welding the bugger to the steering box bracket as it turns out

A certain amount of persuasion released it, but I have had to mess about quite a bit to get the alignment back perfectly as it should be.

There's around 3mm play in the position of the jig overall, so I have got it into exactly the right position, and marked the location with a shadow of spray paint.

Crude but effective.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Spurred on by a facetious comment in the Sandringham 6x6 thread...

No pressure then two weeks will give you time for a full paint job and reupholster too!

I have also located a supplier of the perforated vinyl needed to remake the badly damaged section of headliner directly above the windscreen crumpled in a pile on the back seats, and re-cover the rust stained sun-visors.

Then persuaded a friend who has such skills that he is willing to come teach me when the time comes.

I was just going to leave that gap bare in my original plan... But then again, I wasn't going to bother to repaint initially either.

 

[sako243]

Spurred on by a facetious comment in the Sandringham 6x6 thread...

It's alright. You haven't set yourself a silly deadline...

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

It's alright. You haven't set yourself a silly deadline...

Not personally...

But on the 6th of September I fly out to the Middle East, then get back on the 20th and fly out to China on the 23rd, not returning until the 6th of November.

I really want the bloody thing MOT'd and drivable this year, so if at all possible I am aiming to have it structurally sound with the controls re-fitted by the time I go away.

Stretch goal is to get the wiring loom in too.

 

[sako243]

Isn't it MOT exempt?

To be fair I'm going to take mine to MOTs so I've got a second set of eyes looking over it.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Isn't it MOT exempt?

It will be as soon as I get one!

Can't change it to the historic vehicle tax class without taxing it, can't tax it without a valid MOT.

I feel like they saw Landrover enthusiasts coming with that one.

To be fair I'm going to take mine to MOTs so I've got a second set of eyes looking over it.

Yeah, given the nature of the repairs, and the potential for me to have missed something important, its worth it.

The guy on the parts counter at the Landrover specialist recommended an MOT centre which is used to series landies and "will be fair with you, and knows all the exemptions, but won't let you get away with a bodge job either".

 

[Porkypine]

It will be as soon as I get one!

Can't change it to the historic vehicle tax class without taxing it, can't tax it without a valid MOT.

Are you sure about that ? unless they've changed it, I'm sure I've activated Historic tax exempt class in the past without having to mot it first . Check it out with a Land Rover owners club forum or something, the Series 2 club forum is quite helpful like that ( I know it isn't an S2 )
another idea..Maybe it can happen automatically on a change of owner and issue of a new V5 ? switch ownership to your Mrs or something ?

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Are you sure about that ? unless they've changed it, I'm sure I've activated Historic tax exempt class in the past without having to mot it first . Check it out with a Land Rover owners club forum or something, the Series 2 club forum is quite helpful like that ( I know it isn't an S2 )
another idea..Maybe it can happen automatically on a change of owner and issue of a new V5 ? switch ownership to your Mrs or something ?

That's what the man at the post office said.

I have previously declared stuff as an Agri vehicle without MOT just fine there, so I assume he knows the rules.

Either way, I will MOT before using it, because the repair process has made me painfully aware that its little more than a biscuit tin perched on a ladder... I need all the safety assurances I can get.

 

[OJCar]

Can't change it to the historic vehicle tax class without taxing it, can't tax it without a valid MOT.

Incorrect.

From Gov.UK https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles/apply-for-vehicle-tax-exemption
" Apply for a vehicle tax exemption

Apply at a Post Office that deals with vehicle tax.

You need to take:

• the log book (V5C) in your name
• your vehicle tax reminder letter (V11), if you have one
• evidence of a current MOT (if your vehicle needs one) - for example, a copy of your vehicle’s MOT history or your MOT certificate, if you have one
• evidence if your vehicle’s exempt from an MOT (V112)

If you do not have the log book, download and fill in an application for a log book (V62). Take it to the Post Office with the £25 fee."

Fill in a V112 Exempt from MoT using category R as the reason for exemption.

No current MOT or current Tax requirement.

 

[OJCar]

That's what the man at the post office said.

Well he is wrong.

Agree with getting a second set of eyes to check your work.
Any MoT Inspector can do a Motor Engineers Certificate Inspection which does not go on the computer and you can allow him to do any dismantling he needs to inspect properly.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Incorrect.

From Gov.UK https://www.gov.uk/historic-vehicles/apply-for-vehicle-tax-exemption
" Apply for a vehicle tax exemption

Apply at a Post Office that deals with vehicle tax.

You need to take:

• the log book (V5C) in your name
• your vehicle tax reminder letter (V11), if you have one
• evidence of a current MOT (if your vehicle needs one) - for example, a copy of your vehicle’s MOT history or your MOT certificate, if you have one
• evidence if your vehicle’s exempt from an MOT (V112)

If you do not have the log book, download and fill in an application for a log book (V62). Take it to the Post Office with the £25 fee."

Fill in a V112 Exempt from MoT using category R as the reason for exemption.

No current MOT or current Tax requirement.

Interesting, the guidance on the .gov.uk website there contradicts the guidance published in INF34.

The way the internal guidance sheet that the chap at the post office has interprets the rules is:

- The V5C declares the current tax class as TC11 "Private Light Goods"

- To change the TC11 to "Historic Vehicle", I must tax the car (at zero rate, under the new tax class).

- As a TC11 vehicle, it is not entitled to be taxed with a V112, because it is not yet in the "historic vehicle" tax class.

- Thus I must have an MOT in order to change the tax class and qualify for the exemption under category R.

This is consistent with what's written in INF34, and is a valid interpretation (but not the only valid interpretation) of the .gov.uk guidance.

Maybe I just need to shop around for a different Post Office, which interprets the rules differently.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Well he is wrong.

Doesn't really matter if he's wrong, he's the one who has access to tax it on the DVLA system.

I could shop around for a different postmaster I suppose, but there's less and less of them about.

Agree with getting a second set of eyes to check your work.

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I am confident that any work I have done will be at an acceptable standard (I wouldn't take it for test otherwise)...

What really worries me is the fact that with a vehicle that's been out of commission so long there could easily be work that's needed, which I haven't done because I didn't spot the issue.

Like the palava I had with the Hilux last year, where all of my repairs passed with flying colours, but each time I went to test, something new broke somewhere else, and I was too laser focused on fixing the defects on my sheet to notice the additional issue.

Any MoT Inspector can do a Motor Engineers Certificate Inspection which does not go on the computer and you can allow him to do any dismantling he needs to inspect properly.

What's the benefit of getting a Motor Engineer's Certificate Inspection (or any of the myriad other names people use for the same thing), over a formally declared MOT?

If he comes back and says it's unroadworthy, I have still created evidence that could be used to screw me over if I drive it and something goes wrong...

If he comes back and says it's roadworthy, then it would have passed an MOT.

 

[OJCar]

What's the benefit of getting a Motor Engineer's Certificate Inspection (or any of the myriad other names people use for the same thing), over a formally declared MOT?

"and you can allow him to do any dismantling he needs to inspect properly. "

They can do a more thorough inspection without falling foul of the Rules for MoT Inspectors.

If you are determined to get an MOT, just get on with it.

 

[Wildefalcon]

So long as you fix anything in an engineers report, why not get it done?

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

They can do a more thorough inspection without falling foul of the Rules for MoT Inspectors.

That makes sense.

I presume that if it's formally on the system, even if I give my permission for additional inspections they would tie themselves up in knots if they find something that's wouldn't be an MOT fail, but is nevertheless not right.

So long as you fix anything in an engineers report, why not get it done?

It's worth looking into either as well as or instead of the MOT.

Cost would be the major disincentive, as giving someone a Landrover to inspect and telling them they're free to disassemble anything they're unsure about to get a better look feels like it could rapidly run up substantial labour costs.

 

[Porkypine]

I like to proceed with the minimum of official BS in all things, but that's just me !
You'd probably need to find a very 'friendly' mot place to get a series LR thru an mot nowadays tbh.
Obviously your call but I'd research thoroughly the historic class and try to get yours changed as easily as poss, forgetting the Post Office, I'd have thought it best to just do the change with DVLA ?