Renault Master 2005 Drive Shaft Oil Seal Replacement

[indy4x]

We are due to go away later this week in our Renault Master and annoying the LH drive shaft oil seal has decided to stop holding oil in the gearbox

Anything special I need to know before I start the work to pull the driveshaft out and replace the seal?

 

[DanZac]

Double check what the gearbox oil level should be when you come to refill it (assuming enough has leaked out to need refilling).

Some of the Renault box's aren't fill to overflow, my vivaro (Renault gearbox) is 10mm below the overflow or something equally silly and if you overfill it risks blowing the seals out again.

 

[indy4x]

@DanZac I've just replaced the oil, Renault says 2.7l, no mention of fill to spill and it doesn't reach the filler plug.

There was some noise from the GB, I replaced the oil using the correct Renault spec as I wasn't sure if the noise was incorrect oil or low oil level, either way the box is way quieter with the fresh oil to the correct level but the oil leak has got significantly worse.

We are travelling from South Wales to Sutton Hoo in a few days which is about as far east as you can go plus travelling around and don't fancy risking the journey with the leak

 

[indy4x]

Driveshaft is off, pretty straightforward job despite some very rusty nuts

Fortunately you can get the shaft out without separating the lower ball joints

Inner CV is unusual in that it sits inside the gearbox and the gaiter holds in the gearbox oil

Gaiter doesn't rotate with the shaft, it's fixed to the gearbox and there is a bearing and seal that runs against the driveshaft to keep the oil in

Diff with shaft and CV removed



This is the CV, gaiter has hardened and possibly not installed correctly by a previous person, the gaiter wasn't fully centered in the clamping plate



New gaiter ordered from the local factors, should be here tomorrow, fingers crossed it's the right one as there a 5 variations to choose from!

If it is the wrong one then the original is going back on with some added gloop to hopefully seal the gaiter to the gearbox so we can go away

 

[indy4x]

I have also acquired a factory manual in pdf from, looks like the gearbox is fill to spill, in which case it needs a little more than the 2.7l specified

Will double check on my laptop in the morning, it's late, I'm tired and my phone screen isn't big enough

 

[GRW]

I have also acquired a factory manual in pdf from, looks like the gearbox is fill to spill, in which case it needs a little more than the 2.7l specified

Will double check on my laptop in the morning, it's late, I'm tired and my phone screen isn't big enough

I did my Master gearbox oil a couple of months ago. I measured out 2.7L from 3L bottles of the correct Tranself stuff, after draining the box for a good while.
Maybe it wasn't dead flat, and/or you don't get every drop out, but 2.7L filled my 6-speed box to overflow level.

(Old oil didn't look bad at all, just a bit darker than new, but the box is smoother after changing it I'm sure)

 

[roofman]

I have 3 vans..1 trafic and 2 vivaros, best way to fill the gearbox is from the top through the reverse switch hole and use the side filler below as a quantity gauge just as it starts trickling out. i find 80/90 makes these boxes a lot smoother too. funny enough i have just refitted a M9R into one of my vans this week after a full rebuild

 

[GRW]

I have 3 vans..1 trafic and 2 vivaros, best way to fill the gearbox is from the top through the reverse switch hole and use the side filler below as a quantity gauge just as it starts trickling out. i find 80/90 makes these boxes a lot smoother too. funny enough i have just refitted a M9R into one of my vans this week after a full rebuild

I used a 12v pump to refill mine via the fill hole. Worked well and was mess-free.

 

[indy4x]

Its now all back together and so far leak free

Replacement boot from the local factors was the correct one and fitting was fairly straightforward

After reading some tales of woe on a Renault forum about how much of a PITA it is to replace the bearing on the driveshaft, I just changed the boot. Didn't want to tempt fate as we are going away in it this weekend

Old boot, you can see the marks at the bottom of the picture where it wasn't sealing properly



This is what it should look like and you can see the back of the bearing



And this is the bearing that allows the boot to stay stationary while the shaft rotates



I am going to have to go back in once we are home, the threads in diff where the the boot retaining bolts go in are a little squiffy, they need helicoiling, no biggie as I can do the wheel bearing at the same time and maybe brave the drive shaft bearing change as well

 

[indy4x]

@GRW you have a DM

 

[GRW]

Its now all back together and so far leak free

Replacement boot from the local factors was the correct one and fitting was fairly straightforward

After reading some tales of woe on a Renault forum about how much of a PITA it is to replace the bearing on the driveshaft, I just changed the boot. Didn't want to tempt fate as we are going away in it this weekend

Old boot, you can see the marks at the bottom of the picture where it wasn't sealing properly

View attachment 492744

This is what it should look like and you can see the back of the bearing

View attachment 492745

And this is the bearing that allows the boot to stay stationary while the shaft rotates

View attachment 492746

I am going to have to go back in once we are home, the threads in diff where the the boot retaining bolts go in are a little squiffy, they need helicoiling, no biggie as I can do the wheel bearing at the same time and maybe brave the drive shaft bearing change as well

I've read know a Renault FB Group that the driveshaft removal can be a PITA (also pretty much everything else to do with the complicated front suspension & steering tbh - and it does look... busy under there!).
Because its all new to me with the van, plus I've never done much with suspension & balljoints etc - I find the prospect a bit daunting tbh.

Generally for me the result of getting stuck in goes 1 of 2 ways:
1. Nowhere near as bad as the anticipation,
2. Total nightmare
Hope the trip away goes well

G.

 

[GRW]

Oh yes.... do you have an undertray fitted on your van? Mine was AWOL as is so often the case (Fitter can't be arsed to refit it after work & chucks it).
I read that the tray really is useful on these, & genuinelyprotects the drive belts, pulleys and so forth from wear & tear from road grime & salt.
So despite the PITA of having to take it on an off (& it was a faff on my own to fit) I bought a new one off Ebay for £58 & fitted it after recently changing the steering UJ.

 

[indy4x]

@GRW

Same here, either no problems and it all goes well or a total mare

The driveshaft was easy, was expecting some challenges with rusty nuts & bolts but it all went well. I did give them all a wire brush and applied ATF/Acetone mix to the threads the previous day which probably helped

If it wasn't a bank holiday weekend and we weren't going away I would have changed the bearing, just didn't want to chance it going Pete Tong

Mine is without its undertray, wasn't on the van when we bought it and the few scrappers I've come across while looking for parts for mine also had theirs missing, something to add to the list

After this break, its front wheel bearing and new shocks

 

[bricol]

Inner CV is unusual in that it sits inside the gearbox and the gaiter holds in the gearbox oil

Gaiter doesn't rotate with the shaft, it's fixed to the gearbox and there is a bearing and seal that runs against the driveshaft to keep the oil in

Might be unusual now, but was common on Renault car boxes in the 80's - both my R11 and R5 had the same idea - I guess as it's oil lubricated, with the oil constantly being pumped around by the gears and bearings, so flushing contaminants away all the time, the boot and bearing last a long time. I certainly had no problems in lots of miles, including lots of motorsport events, with mine, but always wondered about the chance of that boot failing and dumping the oil rather quicker than a worn lip seal might.

 

[GRW]

@GRW

Same here, either no problems and it all goes well or a total mare

The driveshaft was easy, was expecting some challenges with rusty nuts & bolts but it all went well. I did give them all a wire brush and applied ATF/Acetone mix to the threads the previous day which probably helped

If it wasn't a bank holiday weekend and we weren't going away I would have changed the bearing, just didn't want to chance it going Pete Tong

Mine is without its undertray, wasn't on the van when we bought it and the few scrappers I've come across while looking for parts for mine also had theirs missing, something to add to the list

After this break, its front wheel bearing and new shocks

I can't remember if mine had a tray on purchase and first thing I did was book it for a cambelt.... but either way it didn't have one.
I bought a new aftermarket replacement one. I don't think it's perfect as the hatches don't line up perfectly with oil filter etc annoyingly - but it did go know OK & came with bolts and fittings.
(Note the push in clips with threaded inserts that go into the rear engine x-member are a PITA - ditto the ones in the wheelarches. I also had to make a new front support bracket for the drivers side wheelarch insert as mine had corroded through)

 

[Smallfry]

I seldom look a mechanics corner so missed this ......... I have loads of experience with these boxes.

Thats a PK series box, five or six speed. Five speed being better, as it lasts longer. MUST use the correct spec oil as this affects longevity and gearshift quality. Causes the third gear synchromesh to fail too.

The Achilles heel with the PK box is the cup inside the box that the LH driveshaft tripod joint runs in. It gets grooves worn in it on the thrust side where the three rollers run. When it gets bad, it causes a side to side wobble on acceleration which is very disconcerting, and is generally misdiagnosed by garages.

I have all the tools to replace the gearbox bearings, which is easy to do once the gearbox is off. If the gearbox starts to hum or whine, don't ignore it. There will be a catastrophic failure.

 

[indy4x]

@Smallfry

Thanks for the info

Yes it's the 6 speed, originally it was a 5 speed but the PO had it swapped out for this one

Fortunately it doesn't suffer with wobble on acceleration so guessing the cup is OK

It just had fresh oil and I used the correct Renault oil as I'd remembered someone posting that the box wouldn't be happy with the incorrect oil, guessing that must have been 1 of your posts

 

[FerdiNL]

I seldom look a mechanics corner so missed this ......... I have loads of experience with these boxes.

Thats a PK series box, five or six speed. Five speed being better, as it lasts longer. MUST use the correct spec oil as this affects longevity and gearshift quality. Causes the third gear synchromesh to fail too.

The Achilles heel with the PK box is the cup inside the box that the LH driveshaft tripod joint runs in. It gets grooves worn in it on the thrust side where the three rollers run. When it gets bad, it causes a side to side wobble on acceleration which is very disconcerting, and is generally misdiagnosed by garages.

I have all the tools to replace the gearbox bearings, which is easy to do once the gearbox is off. If the gearbox starts to hum or whine, don't ignore it. There will be a catastrophic failure.

I was Googling about this and came across this forum so I registered here.
First place to finally see some pictures regarding this as well.

We have 2010 MK2 (one of the last ones) 2.5 DCi 120 with the 6 speed and....yes the wobble.
Already changed both drive shafts (right hand side was bad anyway, no pain with getting the bearing out) and swapped the engine mounts which were also bad but the wobble stayed.
Came across this issue somewhere else as well but asside from a picture of the cup that was all the information I could find.
Finally a came across a seller who sells the cups and the diveshaft tripod. Now I received a set but the tripod doesn't fit on the driveshaft but looking at this the cup will be the issue?
Are all the cups from the 6 speed the same? Because I am at the point of sending the set back to the seller but if the issue is in the cup and the tripod would nog be the issue and the cups are the same then I would still give it a go I think?
Or do anyone knows the correct number of a set like this?

Sorry for all the questions

 

[Blobber]

I was Googling about this and came across this forum so I registered here.
First place to finally see some pictures regarding this as well.

We have 2010 MK2 (one of the last ones) 2.5 DCi 120 with the 6 speed and....yes the wobble.
Already changed both drive shafts (right hand side was bad anyway, no pain with getting the bearing out) and swapped the engine mounts which were also bad but the wobble stayed.
Came across this issue somewhere else as well but asside from a picture of the cup that was all the information I could find.
Finally a came across a seller who sells the cups and the diveshaft tripod. Now I received a set but the tripod doesn't fit on the driveshaft but looking at this the cup will be the issue?
Are all the cups from the 6 speed the same? Because I am at the point of sending the set back to the seller but if the issue is in the cup and the tripod would nog be the issue and the cups are the same then I would still give it a go I think?
Or do anyone knows the correct number of a set like this?

Sorry for all the questions

I think the right hand has 27 teeth and the left hand 25 teeth

 

[FerdiNL]

The tripod I have at the moment is to small for the drive shaft.

Also on another place I just read that you can't change the cups with a PF gearbox?