Why would a 150 amp winch come with a 100 amp circuit breaker?

[rcx132]

Superwinch Terra 3500lb. The specs say it will draw up to 150 amps. But it came out the box with 100 amp breaker (two mini 50amp breakers in parallel, Short Stop W34).

The winch has a 1.6HP motor, which means at 12v it should draw 100amps, which makes sense for the circuit breaker but not with the specified current

 

[123hotchef]

to protect the cable probably, what size is the cable?

 

[Ubique]

Circuit breakers / fuses wont trip or rupture at exactly the rated current, they will pass (the rated current) continuously, higher currents will cause them to trip / rupture after a defined period, which depends upon the overload current. A 50% overload will be tolerated for minutes, not seconds.

 

[brightspark]

Circuit breakers / fuses wont trip or rupture at exactly the rated current, they will pass (the rated current) continuously, higher currents will cause them to trip / rupture after a defined period, which depends upon the overload current. A 50% overload will be tolerated for minutes, not seconds.

that all depends on the type of breaker mainly a b type or a c a 32 amp breaker will not run constantly at that full load where as a 30 amp fuse wire will run at over 30 amp constantly. same as a 13 amp fuse in a plug will; happily run at 18 amp for a long period

 

[Ubique]

These don't have the same tripping curves as mains circuit breakers - which from memory are more to do with inrush current handling than fault current.
Any circuit breaker should allow it's rated current to pass all day long, which is borne out by a quick look at a BSEN60898 'B' curve. What is possible is that accumulated heat in the enclosure will cause nuisance tripping if one or more circuit breakers are run at full capacity - but that's a discussion more related to circuit design and circuit breaker rating in mains powered environments, high current vehicle installations for winches typically only operate for minutes at a time.

https://www.electriciantalk.com/attachments/type-b-jpg.52369/

 

[Jack Ryan]

Superwinch Terra 3500lb. The specs say it will draw up to 150 amps. But it came out the box with 100 amp breaker (two mini 50amp breakers in parallel, Short Stop W34).

The winch has a 1.6HP motor, which means at 12v it should draw 100amps, which makes sense for the circuit breaker but not with the specified current

I'm not really up with winches but a fully loaded 1.5HP motor will draw more than 100 amps. 1.5HP (1200W) is the output power, not the input (electrical) power.

I would say that the nominal 100A limit is defined by the maximum continuous load. 150A is probably the current draw at the maximum intermittent load.

Somewhere, there should be a duty cycle that connects the two.

Jack

 

[Red'n'Black]

I'd be more concerned with the two breakers in parallel. Doing that would get you taken out the back and shot, most places I've worked.

 

[Jack Ryan]

I'd be more concerned with the two breakers in parallel. Doing that would get you taken out the back and shot, most places I've worked.

Yes, I've never known CBs to be good with sharing.

Jack

 

[123hotchef]

Is it this you refer to as the circuit breaker.

 

[rcx132]

Is it this you refer to as the circuit breaker.

View attachment 457983

Yup. Those are 50 amp each.

 

[hotponyshoes]

I think I would just swap those for a mega fuse & holder

 

[123hotchef]

thats exactly what I did with my winch those fuses will let you down when you need them most.

 

[rcx132]

Thing is, the manufacturer has presumably matched the circuit breakers to what the winch can handle. A fuse will change things. At 100amps, which the breakers allow to flow continuously, this 3500lb winch will only pull 2000lb. The breakers pop within seconds of going over (I bench tested) which means the winch will only give a few seconds of max pull!

 

[Ubique]

Remember with a winch the full rating is only available on the first layer of wire on the drum, every subsequent layer reduces the maximum pull / lift by a fair amount.
Personally I wouldn't trust Superwinch (which has become an oxymoron since they went fully over to being Chinesium box-shifters) to match anything, what you have is purely what their suppliers can put together to meet the price point.

 

[premmington]

Remember with a winch the full rating is only available on the first layer of wire on the drum, every subsequent layer reduces the maximum pull / lift by a fair amount.
Personally I wouldn't trust Superwinch (which has become an oxymoron since they went fully over to being Chinesium box-shifters) to match anything, what you have is purely what their suppliers can put together to meet the price point.

What is good make of winch now...?

 

[Ubique]

Twenty years ago I would have said Warn, they were specced as the supplier for the LRE & G8 challenge vehicles and I had them on my own LR's, we used them day in & out when we were running the winch training courses for LRE / LANTRA / BORDA - never let me down and the cabling & control gear were comfortably rated. Honestly, I'd look at some of the commercial grade stuff that utilities & recovery truck builders use, all the hobby / lifestyle winches now are all varying 'quality' tat from what I've seen and my sons report from the 'pay & play' days they go, more out of morbid curiosity than involvement in stupidity!.

 

[123hotchef]

What is good make of winch now...?

Redwinch aint bad, I stuill use a warn with a oxbow motor attached.
I also run a winchmax.
I have refurbed a few winch max and a few or some other orange things rhino they were the winchmax are better made.
I also have a Husky!

 

[Ubique]

The Warn with an Oxbow motor have been around for a long time - pretty much the 'mud standard', quite bulky and used on a lot of 'challenge' vehicles & recovery trucks 'back in the day' - the winch in the OP looks to have far too short a drum to me, so there will be excessive layering (and reduction in pull) unless you're using a pulley block. The XP Warn is/was a good axial winch with a short clutch so had a much longer drum than most, consequently it also had a longer full rating pull.

 

[Robotstar5]

Twenty years ago I would have said Warn, they were specced as the supplier for the LRE & G8 challenge vehicles and I had them on my own LR's, we used them day in & out when we were running the winch training courses for LRE / LANTRA / BORDA - never let me down and the cabling & control gear were comfortably rated. Honestly, I'd look at some of the commercial grade stuff that utilities & recovery truck builders use, all the hobby / lifestyle winches now are all varying 'quality' tat from what I've seen and my sons report from the 'pay & play' days they go, more out of morbid curiosity than involvement in stupidity!.

I ran a Warn M8000 when I did rally recovery, nice low profile mount below the bumper on my RR.

 

[Jelly_Sheffield]

Honestly, I'd look at some of the commercial grade stuff that utilities & recovery truck builders use, all the hobby / lifestyle winches now are all varying 'quality' tat from what I've seen and my sons report from the 'pay & play' days they go, more out of morbid curiosity than involvement in stupidity!.

Out of curiosity, what's your opinion on hydraulic Vs electric winches?

When I finish rebuilding my Landy, I may well have rationalise vehicles...

Currently have an older 8000lb Superwinch on my Pickup which is used mostly for loading/unloading machine tools on trailers (with a front hitch), if I didn't keep the pickup I would need to replicate that functionality on the landy.

Particularly given I'm moving very heavy, tippy objects, it would be nice to have a winch which can lower off smoothly under power, which many of the electric winches don't.

Apologies to @rcx132 for the minor thread hijacking.