Digital IDs

[Morrisman]

The main thing of the lock down was to slow the spread & flatten the peaks of likely infection in the UK so hospitals had a chance to cope.....

But then they, finally, imposed the silly rule about flying in and spending 14 days in a quarantine hotel rule, at vast personal expense, too little, too late.

 

[DAPPH]

@DAPPH, the 15 biggest ships in the world produce more sulfur oxide, nitrogen oxide and CO2 than all the cars on the road. Something makes me think they are nudging the wrong person.

As to 'nudging', the uk government actually employs an outfit called the Nudge Unit, also called the Behavioural Insights Team. They suggest that the purpose is to help the government to develop policy that will change people's behaviour but they use subliminal programming and emotional blackmail to do so. How do you feel about that?

Ship pollution :-
That's why there are experiment new tech computer controlled sail ships, solar & blue hydrogen powered ships in development .
Dare I mention the smaller nuclear powered ships being mooted too ? The USA's carriers have a phenomenal ability to stay off shore for fuel or repair for something like 25 yrs of the carriers 50 yr life 40 yrs IIRC.

Subliminal nudging by the government .. you must be to only one who's in on the secret ..the squeemies & screamies would have a field day plus VAT. on that one.

 

[gaz1]

The main thing of the lock down was to slow the spread & flatten the peaks of likely infection in the UK so hospitals had a chance to cope .

Without the lockdowns I have a very strong feeling that we as a country would have been absolutely slaughtered with the disease and its variants.
We wouldn't have lost just a lot of old folk like happened we'd have had massive fatal losses in the working population . .

I think you missed what he was saying that others was still coming and going into and out of the country even though we was locked down

But then they, finally, imposed the silly rule about flying in and spending 14 days in a quarantine hotel rule, at vast personal expense, too little, too late.

I read it as that myself

its all been a right mess from the very start all for profit really

 

[DAPPH]

I didn't miss it at all, nor did I ignore it , Keeping the airlines flight slots open and airports being used at a reduced rate was also in the national interest

 

[gaz1]

I didn't miss it at all, nor did I ignore it , Keeping the airlines flight slots open and airports being used at a reduced rate was also in the national interest

it would have been if at landing they was quarantined but they wasnt
they landed and just went home therefore spreading it

that isnt national interest lock down means lock down

national interest means keeping food transports running and repairs where needed
supplying the nhs with much needed protection

not a poxy flight in and out of the country possibly spreading what they might have caught

 

[Prajna]

Subliminal nudging by the government .. you must be to only one who's in on the secret ..the squeemies & screamies would have a field day plus VAT. on that one.

“Nudge Unit” | Institute for Government

The Behavioural Insights team, popularly known as the ‘Nudge Unit’, is playing a big role in helping the government formulate its response to coronavi

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk

 

[rcx132]

“Nudge Unit” | Institute for Government

The Behavioural Insights team, popularly known as the ‘Nudge Unit’, is playing a big role in helping the government formulate its response to coronavi

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk

So looking at the website this organisation does some similar work to a marketing department, for example, developing simple messaging on how to control spread of virus, in a short way that the general public can understand. I don't see any conspiracy here.

 

[Prajna]

So looking at the website this organisation does some similar work to a marketing department, for example, developing simple messaging on how to control spread of virus, in a short way that the general public can understand. I don't see any conspiracy here.

Did I suggest conspiracy, @rcx132? What I suggest is that this organisation is about using underhand methods to control the public's thoughts and behaviours and, personally, I think that is a nefarious programme. It stems from the assertion that the government is all-wise and you and I are stupid and that a paternalistic government should be in charge of our thinking. I have an IQ of 149 according to Mensa (not that I haven't come across many very stupid intelligent people) but how many MPs are in the top 2% of rankings for intelligence? Why should such people have paternalistic control over me? It is an affront. Are you at ease with a partying-in-the-face-of-crisis bunch of liers and hypocrites using manipulation to control you? I respond to ration and reason and honesty and directness and I can't believe I live in what is touted to be a free world when the government uses such tactics to control me. Shouldn't we be controlling the government rather than vice-versa? Aren't they supposed to be our servants. If your employee is plotting to control you and your business what do you do? Are these thoughts conspiracy paranoia?

 

[Dessieb2022]

So looking at the website this organisation does some similar work to a marketing department, for example, developing simple messaging on how to control spread of virus, in a short way that the general public can understand. I don't see any conspiracy here.

Have you read the book 'State of Fear'? Their messaging isn't all that innocent...

 

[rcx132]

Have you read the book 'State of Fear'? Their messaging isn't all that innocent...

Books are good to get insight into an authors thinking. But they're not actually as reliable as people think. You can see this with topics like "The impact of Wallmart on society". There are books that say the impact is terrible, and there are books that say the opposite. If I read a book, I prefer textbooks, or series such as The Great Courses, which have a policy of ensuring their content is reliable, traceable and academic.

(Sorry, edited as I'm trying to be more objective)

 

[maroon]

I haven't, for the simple reason that to avoid conspiracies and mis-information, I stick to reliable sources.

Like that bob lazar and Jordan maxwell?

Two of the biggest crackpots going.
Infectious the bullmanure they spouted in the 80/90s
Story's been coped more times than the amen break, people start to believe it

 

[Prajna]

I haven't, for the simple reason that to avoid conspiracies and mis-information, I stick to reliable sources.

How do you determine the reliability of your sources, @rcx132? Would you be able to distinguish truth from falsehood yourself and if not then how could you possibly decide who to trust to do it for you? What if there is a conspiracy and you ignore it because 'it's a conspiracy'? How many times has the government said, "oops, we got it wrong"? WMD in Iraq? Neil Furgason's covid predictions? You can believe that the state of the world is down to incompetence rather than a conspiracy to destroy our societal structures and then 'build back better' but who wants to be ruled by incompetents over conspiricists?

By the way, in case Lockey is lurking, I consider this discussion to be philosophy rather than politics. And thanks again, @rcx132, for continuing this conversation in a civil manner and for making the effort to follow my links and leads before responding.

 

[My Old Landy]

Like that bob lazar and Jordan maxwell?

Two of the biggest crackpots going.
Infectious the bullmanure they spouted in the 80/90s
Story's been coped more times than the amen break, people start to believe it

It is most definitely true, if you say something enough people believe it.
I used to tell people I had a bunker, it started out as a joke but when I left the area folk asked me if I was going to fill it in as I had no planning permission!!

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

It's a very old sales technique...you just keep repeating the same marketing message and eventually people just accept it as a fact.

 

[Prajna]

It's a very old sales technique...you just keep repeating the same marketing message and eventually people just accept it as a fact.

"safe and effective"

 

[My Old Landy]

Everyone with a message tries to sell their idea. Personally I don't vote and therefore don't complain about the government. I don't try and convince others I am right because I am probably wrong with my point of view.
Each to their own. I do, however, find some points of view amusing and chuckle inwardly

 

[rcx132]

It stems from the assertion that the government is all-wise and you and I are stupid

Government has departments that employ experts, are specialists in their field, they collect and assess data, and have developed processes and frameworks. A lot of these processes are open so that we can scrutinise them. I was impressed when I traced some of the National Health Service medication policies, all the way to source, to the individual studies that made them decide on medications, and how they checked that the studies were reliable. It's very good.

How do you determine the reliability of your sources, @rcx132?

As an example, after our discussion yesterday I read through three democracy indexes to see if your theories on government control and government agenda marry up to what the data says.

What if there is a conspiracy and you ignore it because 'it's a conspiracy'? How many times has the government said, "oops, we got it wrong"? WMD in Iraq?

The Hunter Laptop is a great example, initially considered a conspiracy as it had the hallmarks, ignored and even censored so not to affect elections, eventually re-assessed and no longer considered a conspiracy. Same goes for the Iraq war, eventually the truth came out. To me, making mistakes and then having society admit to them are signs that the system works.

Iraq war is a tough one... there is a general admission that we did wrong but we didn't do enough to punish the perpetrators (Tony Blair for example). Our mis-deeds have contributed to countries like India not trusting us, and now we need India's support in Ukraine and we don't have it.

 

[stuvy]

It's a very old sales technique...you just keep repeating the same marketing message and eventually people just accept it as a fact.

So your saying this IS the last ever DFS sale?

 

[Prajna]

Government has departments that employ experts, are specialists in their field, they collect and assess data, and have developed processes and frameworks. A lot of these processes are open so that we can scrutinise them. I was impressed when I traced some of the National Health Service medication policies, all the way to source, to the individual studies that made them decide on medications, and how they checked that the studies were reliable. It's very good.

As an example, after our discussion yesterday I read through three democracy indexes to see if your theories on government control and government agenda marry up to what the data says.


The Hunter Laptop is a great example, initially considered a conspiracy as it had the hallmarks, ignored and even censored so not to affect elections, eventually re-assessed and no longer considered a conspiracy. Same goes for the Iraq war, eventually the truth came out. To me, making mistakes and then having society admit to them are signs that the system works.

Iraq war is a tough one... there is a general admission that we did wrong but we didn't do enough to punish the perpetrators (Tony Blair for example). Our mis-deeds have contributed to countries like India not trusting us, and now we need India's support in Ukraine and we don't have it.

Iraq was not incompetence! It was, according to Justice Jackson, chief prosecutor at the Nuremburg trials, "the supreme international crime", the unprovoked invasion of a sovereign territory. It's about time we began to recognise things for what they are. Blair should be strung up for what he did but that's not how the world works. Where is he now? It is because we are prepared to excuse such malfesance and say, "oh well, we'll get it right in the end, it's self correcting." that 500,000 children died in Iraq.

You explained where you go to check facts but you didn't explain how you check the fact checkers. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[rcx132]

Iraq was not incompetence! It was, according to Justice Jackson, chief prosecutor at the Nuremburg trials, "the supreme international crime", the unprovoked invasion of a sovereign territory. It's about time we began to recognise things for what they are. Blair should be strung up for what he did but that's not how the world works. Where is he now? It is because we are prepared to excuse such malfesance and say, "oh well, we'll get it right in the end, it's self correcting." that 500,000 children died in Iraq.

I'm very sorry I clearly don't know enough about the Iraq war and have understated its devastation and how responsible we are. I'll take this on board and read more on it

You explained where you go to check facts but you didn't explain how you check the fact checkers. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Sample checks. Every so often, if a topic interests me enough, I trace it back to source and check the fact checkers. I don't check every fact checker, which would be unrealistic.