MOT welding

[Wolf1608]

My VW T4 failed it's MOT miserably. For those that know these rust buckets it's the front outriggers that mate to the outer edge of the bumper and the inner wheel arch.

I know the patch I let in to replace the rotten metal under the washer bottle will need a continuous weld all round but what about the outrigger underneath? Original fitted with spot welds and plug weld, can I replicate this or does it also need to be continuously weld??

Promise to post pictures at the weekend if anyone is interested??

Ta.
Matt.

 

[James1979]

There will be a tester along shortly I’d think, as there are a few on here, but this is the official word

MOT inspection manual: cars and passenger vehicles - Appendix A: Structural integrity and corrosion - Guidance - GOV.UK

Assessing corrosion and methods of repair for car and passenger vehicle MOT tests.

www.gov.uk

 

[maroon]

My VW T4 failed it's MOT miserably. For those that know these rust buckets it's the front outriggers that mate to the outer edge of the bumper and the inner wheel arch.

I know the patch I let in to replace the rotten metal under the washer bottle will need a continuous weld all round but what about the outrigger underneath? Original fitted with spot welds and plug weld, can I replicate this or does it also need to be continuously weld??

Promise to post pictures at the weekend if anyone is interested??

Ta.
Matt.

If you put a like for like panel in you can spot/plug it into place. "Like factory" if it's a patch repair it must be seamed all around.

 

[doobin]

Of course, a seam of patch welds gapped in with Tigerseal looks just like a continuous weld once under sealed….

Tigerseal or similar is actually a better/stronger way of repairing rusty bodywork in a lot of cases. Assuming you can apply sufficient clamp force (I like rivets to follow the contours) the bonding force with an inch or so overlap greatly exceeds a seam of pigeon **** into rusty metal.

 

[maroon]

Of course, a seam of patch welds gapped in with Tigerseal looks just like a continuous weld once under sealed….

Tigerseal or similar is actually a better/stronger way of repairing rusty bodywork in a lot of cases. Assuming you can apply sufficient clamp force (I like rivets to follow the contours) the bonding force with an inch or so overlap greatly exceeds a seam of pigeon **** into rusty metal.

For this reason on an mot failure. An mot tester can refuse to retest it if it's been under sealed. And you'll have to pay for a full test again.

That's just a cowboy trick Imo.

 

[tom2207]

over here all repairs are to be left bare for inspection ,,,

it seems harsh if you do good work , but the system is fair , and cuts out poor workmanship , although if you see some of the repairs that do get passed the standards are not hard to meet.

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I've always assumed if a "partial" panel is let in then it'll need seam welding along the cut line...but if the edges were originally plug/spot welded then these can be replicated?

Happy to be corrected though (my MOT guy has always been happy with my stuff)...so for example a sill repair using a partial sill would be seam along the cut line(s) but plug/spot along the lower flange (if that was what the factory did).

 

[truckdoctor]

Seam welding a patch panel is acceptable or use this method possibly if you have no conscience.

 

[James1979]

From the link I put........

"Acceptable methods of repair

Repairs to structural components must be properly carried out and appear to be as strong as the original structure. This requires the use of suitable materials and any plating or welding extends to a sound part of a load-bearing member.

You can only pass spot welded repairs if the original panel was spot welded and the original panel or section has been removed. Stitch or plug welding can be used instead of spot welding.

In all other circumstances, patch repairs must be continuously seam welded.

Some vehicle manufacturers have recommended repair methods that use MIG brazing, a combination of adhesive bonding and riveting, or amalgamations of these with other joining methods. Such repairs are therefore acceptable unless they are clearly inadequate.

Unacceptable methods of repair

You cannot accept the following bonding processes for repairs to load-bearing members:

• gas brazing
• soldering
• adhesive bonding
• fibre reinforcement
• body filler

If you cannot tell which the repair method, you should accept the repair and tell the vehicle presenter."

Its worth a read

 

[doubleboost]

For this reason on an mot failure. An mot tester can refuse to retest it if it's been under sealed. And you'll have to pay for a full test again.

That's just a cowboy trick Imo.

That is simply not true . There is a specific list of reasons to refuse to test .
That is not one of them.
If a repair is plastered in underseal ,all we can do is issue a advisory stating that it is covered in underseal

 

[maroon]

That is simply not true . There is a specific list of reasons to refuse to test .
That is not one of them.
If a repair is plastered in underseal ,all we can do is issue a advisory stating that it is covered in underseal

For retest. On the repair. not the actual full test?

 

[James1979]

That is simply not true . There is a specific list of reasons to refuse to test .
That is not one of them.
If a repair is plastered in underseal ,all we can do is issue a advisory stating that it is covered in underseal

This is what I understand.

I’ve had plenty of advisories on retest saying the brake pipes are now slathered in under seal so they can’t tell if I’ve replaced them or not

 

[doubleboost]

For retest. On the repair. not the actual full test?

all we can do is advise, simple as that unless you can prove the repair is unsatisfactory

 

[premmington]

That is simply not true . There is a specific list of reasons to refuse to test .
That is not one of them.
If a repair is plastered in underseal ,all we can do is issue a advisory stating that it is covered in underseal

The standard is: Continuious weld around repair patches.

Even if the repair plate has weld round it and looks like it has just about cold lapped to what it meant to be attached to.

Even coating of RGS (roof and gutter sealant) - covered with black underseal. It meets the standard - "tested as presented".

Pass and advise - "covered in underseal".


@doubleboost - I agree with you 100%....

 

[doubleboost]

The standard is: Continuious weld around repair patches.

Even if the repair plate has weld round it and looks like it has just about cold lapped to what it meant to be attached to.

Even coating of RGS (roof and gutter sealant) - covered with black underseal. It meets the standard - "tested as presented".

Pass and advise "covered in underseal".


@doubleboost - I agree with you 100%....

The advisory was written by dvsa all we do is click the button . no grey area just pass the heap of %%%% and advise

 

[premmington]

This is what I understand.

I’ve had plenty of advisories on retest saying the brake pipes are now slathered in under seal so they can’t tell if I’ve replaced them or not

BLG = black lithium CV grease.

Advise - brake pipes covered in grease!

RGS = roof cutter sealant.

 

[premmington]

The advisory was written by dvsa all we do is click the button . no grey area just pass the heap of %%%% and advise

When MOT testing you are "government servant" - they make the rules - you just apply them.

 

[maroon]

all we can do is advise, simple as that unless you can prove the repair is unsatisfactory

So car fails for corrosion. Bloke takes it away. Fills it full of cataloy and iron filings slaps a load of underseal on it for the retest. Then walks away with an mot certificate?

 

[premmington]

So car fails for corrosion. Bloke takes it away. Fills it full of cataloy and iron filings slaps a load of underseal on it for the retest. Then walks away with an mot certificate?

No it has to look like it has a continious welded repair plate on it.

You can get a bit of tin - mig weld round the side of it on the floor. Stick it on to the car with windscreen adhesive - seam seal around it - throw buckets of underseal over it - till it is dripping on the floor - and it will pass. They are the rules... @doubleboost and me don't make them - your elected government does.

 

[doubleboost]

So car fails for corrosion. Bloke takes it away. Fills it full of cataloy and iron filings slaps a load of underseal on it for the retest. Then walks away with an mot certificate?

yes exactly that unless you can prove otherwise . personally i would have a bit scrape . but dvsa would have my balls off