Renewable energy

[Screwdriver]

Trees!

Apparently biomass fuel (wood chips, sawdust pelletised etc.) is big business in central Europe. Counts towards their green credentials and is bigger than all the wind and solar combined. But it's not regulated, so as soon as it became profitable, the loggers went in to Europe's centuries old forests and are going through them quicker than a Russian deserter.

The EU must stop burning trees for renewable energy

The practice undermines the bloc’s climate and nature restoration goals, and it must stop now.

www.politico.eu

It reminds me of the Golgafrinchams in the HHGTTG. All in the name of "green"...

 

[Morrisman]

The U.K. still imports 6 million ++ tons of 'biomass' from the Americas, by diesel powered bulk carriers, as part of its 'save the planet' clean and green scheme.

 

[Dr.Al]

The pedant in me detests the term "Renewable Energy". It used to be called "Sustainable Energy", which was much more in keeping with the laws of thermodynamics.

 

[brewdexta]

Not all biomass suppliers are bad. I use pellets made by these, they are a byproduct of the timber industry.

Sustainability & raw material use

www.mm-holz.com

 

[daleyd]

I'm just here to drop off the blood pressure pills...

 

[Screwdriver]

Not all biomass suppliers are bad. I use pellets made by these, they are a byproduct of the timber industry.

Sustainability & raw material use

www.mm-holz.com

That is of course as it should be and why "we" (!) are giving massive subsidies to biofuel power plants. "They" are using the opportunity to make a quick buck with rampant deforestation. This is energy production at an industrial scale, leading to deforestation at an ever increasing rate - in Europe! Beggars belief really. All in the name of "renewable"...

Oh and the elephant in the room is still nuclear power plants being tagged as "renewable" to prop up the inefficiencies of wind/solar. Unlike clearing a centuries old forest in the name of green energy, you can't grow nuclear fuel. It is produced in a supernova, found it's way into the earths crust where we can "harvest" it. Once it's spent, that's all there is until the next star explodes. "Renewable" it ain't.

I am a big fan of nuke, it is definitely the way to go, but to use it to prop up the category of renewable resources is disingenuous to say the least.

 

[brewdexta]

Not another energy thread! Hasn't this subject been done to death, killed, hung drawn and quartered, bludgeoned to death, etc. etc.

 

[S-Rail]

Don’t worry , it’s messed up for sure , the price of Douglas fir from a local saw mill went up by 50% in one hit about 4 years ago as the timber he was buying , locally was being bought up for biomass . Whole trees felled and chipped , not the waste , the whole tree . Perfectly good usable construction / cladding timber , being redirected for the burner .

 

[frank horton]

Same in SW France.....stunning Oak and Chestnut forests, there today gone tomorrow.....
last time I bought some euro Oak it was 500€ per cub m.....expensive firewood pellets......

 

[James1979]

Not another energy thread! Hasn't this subject been done to death, killed, hung drawn and quartered, bludgeoned to death, etc. etc.

Almost worth starting an offshoot.

Mig-energy.co.uk

 

[dobbslc]

Not another energy thread! Hasn't this subject been done to death, killed, hung drawn and quartered, bludgeoned to death, etc. etc.

Give it time! The usuall suspects will be along sooner or later...

 

[fizzy]

That is of course as it should be and why "we" (!) are giving massive subsidies to biofuel power plants. "They" are using the opportunity to make a quick buck with rampant deforestation. This is energy production at an industrial scale, leading to deforestation at an ever increasing rate - in Europe! Beggars belief really. All in the name of "renewable"...

Oh and the elephant in the room is still nuclear power plants being tagged as "renewable" to prop up the inefficiencies of wind/solar. Unlike clearing a centuries old forest in the name of green energy, you can't grow nuclear fuel. It is produced in a supernova, found it's way into the earths crust where we can "harvest" it. Once it's spent, that's all there is until the next star explodes. "Renewable" it ain't.

I am a big fan of nuke, it is definitely the way to go, but to use it to prop up the category of renewable resources is disingenuous to say the least.

There are breeder reactors which create their own fuel.
They estimate that breeder reactors could eke out uranium deposits for about 5 billion years

 

[fizzy]

Give it time! The usuall suspects will be along sooner or later...

No I am not going to start.
And I am very happy with our well thought out energy systems.
So I will not say any more!

 

[not done it yet]

The U.K. still imports 6 million ++ tons of 'biomass' from the Americas, by diesel powered bulk carriers, as part of its 'save the planet' clean and green scheme.

If it was not for the subsidy payments (the government goofed - or perhaps some had a vested inerest?) that particular scam would never have got off the ground, IMO.

 

[R Kraft]

A documentary years ago showed that the lumber companies ran the Canadian government.
It showed a road many miles long through the beautiful forest.
It also showed that the trees were only out to about a hundred yards from the road, beyond that was clear cut as far as the eye could see.
It looked like a desert of stumps.
The trees they replanted all died because they needed the protection of older trees.

Photography campaign shows the grim aftermath of logging in Canada's fragile forests

Ancient Forest Alliance’s project underscores the preventions that are needed to protect old-growth trees in areas such as the Caycuse watershed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Morrisman]

A documentary years ago showed that the lumber companies ran the Canadian government.
It showed a road many miles long through the beautiful forest.
It also showed that the trees were only out to about a hundred yards from the road, beyond that was clear cut as far as the eye could see.
It looked like a desert of stumps.
The trees they replanted all died because they needed the protection of older trees.

Photography campaign shows the grim aftermath of logging in Canada's fragile forests

Ancient Forest Alliance’s project underscores the preventions that are needed to protect old-growth trees in areas such as the Caycuse watershed

www.theguardian.com

Oddly enough I'm right now watching Big Timber on Netflix, Canadian loggers, battling stupid government regulations.

 

[addjunkie]

If it was not for the subsidy payments (the government goofed - or perhaps some had a vested inerest?) that particular scam would never have got off the ground, IMO.

Didnt the same issue bio mass and supplements wobble the Northern Irish assembly a-few years ago. Sustainable is the key, not importing stuff across the world to burn, madness.

 

[R Kraft]

If it takes sixty or hundreds of years for the carbon to turn back into a tree, it is not renewable or sustainable in a meaningful way.
And wood puts out as much CO2 per BTU as coal in most cases.

 

[brewdexta]

Didnt the same issue bio mass and supplements wobble the Northern Irish assembly a-few years ago. Sustainable is the key, not importing stuff across the world to burn, madness.

They were heating empty buildings and burning any old bits of kitchen carcass etc. just to get the RHI. It's not like that now. Payments are less than a third of what they were and you need documentation that the wood comes from a registered source.

It's gone so far the other way that I would have to register to be a self supplier just to use the wood from my own woods. So £200 quid to register to use about two IBCs of coppicing timber per year.

 

[brewdexta]

If it takes sixty or hundreds of years for the carbon to turn back into a tree, it is not renewable or sustainable in a meaningful way.
And wood puts out as much CO2 per BTU as coal in most cases.

If you only use per year what can regrow then it is sustainable. But obviously this doesn't scale if it's the only energy source. But as part of a proper energy policy, with multiple sources, it can play a part.

First, takeout the influences of the energy companies on the countries energy policy, then we may get somewhere.

Whose recent leadership election campaign was sponsored by an energy company?..........