Driving licence changes?

[Justme]

Very few 7.5ton vehicles on the roads now.

The C1 fleet and its use since 2000​

Since 2000, both the number of C1 vehicles licenced and the overall distance travelled by these vehicles has declined by 58%, from around 4.7 billion kilometres in 2000 to 2.0 billion kilometres in 2019. Over this period, there have also been the following trends:

• a flattening of distances travelled by articulated HGVs
• increases in the number of licenced HGVs, with the heaviest weights (40 tonnes and over) increasing from 29,8000 vehicles in 2000 to 108,500 vehicles in 2019, indicating a shift towards heavier vehicles to move more goods in one load
• large increases in distances travelled by lighter commercial vehicles under 3.5 tonnes (such as vans), which increased by 71% between 2000 and 2019

Some of the shift towards smaller vehicles may be explained by the introduction of C1 testing practices in 1997, but other factors, such as increase in ‘last mile delivery’ (the last leg of journey from a transportation hub to a final destination), are also likely explanations. There may be other factors. We are interested in views on this.

However, the number of category C1 tests has increased, from 4,900 in 2015 to 6,400 by 2019, with a typical pass rate of around 70%. A substantial majority of these will be police officers and paramedics.

This suggests that although the fleet and distance travelled has decreased, there is a still an increasing need for qualified C1 licence holders to drive the current fleet. We welcome views on whether there is a need for more C1 licence holders to ensure the current fleet can operate and if industry considers there to be a driver shortage in this space.

Of course the fleet reduced they added vehicles in this group to CPC Tacho & O licence regs.

I also have suspicion that the C1 vehicle they are talking about are just ones that are under tacho & o licence.
So missing out all the ambo's horse boxes & campers.

 

[Justme]

Gonna get "my head bit off" maybe?

I not sure all this driver training is adding too much to the party. Even the Government is questioning the standard of it?

It did create a whole industry of "trainers charging money for training".

My thinking is: If you are not good enough to drive a C1 class vehicle (7.5tonner) on a B class car licence. You were not good enough to pass you car driving test.

All this "it has airbrakes" - to me a small rigid vehicle is anything upto 7500kg. Be it a car or small lorry.

Wanna solve the "lorry driver issue" - let anybody over 30 - who has held a B class licence with no convictions for ten years - drive vehicles up to 12000kg and it would all be over.

Not by me I agree the standard of most trainers is dire.
The Gov are looking at bringing back in the LGV trainer register that they allowed to be privatised years back.

This issue is most could not pass the car test again as they have let the standards slip.

Re your last point I do have to disagree. The ten year point is when for most standards have dropped & they need a reason to get back up to speed.

IF everyone drove correctly then to pass a HGV test all you would need is to get used to the size / handling.
In reality most of the course is putting right basic bad driving skills.

I get about 1 or 2 every year that I would not give a shopping trolly certificate too never mind allow to drive a car.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Do you work for free?

Lol. That's a random comparison isn't it.

He didn't suggest you work for free. He suggested more and stricter licencing would be good for your pockets. Not the same thing.

 

[Pete.]

This issue is most could not pass the car test again as they have let the standards slip.

I would hazard that almost none of the membership could go and sit a normal car driving test tomorrow and come even close to passing. Not because standards have slipped but because the passing criteria has become more strict nowadays. You literally have to 'know' a whole lot more.

 

[Justme]

Lol. That's a random comparison isn't it.

He didn't suggest you work for free. He suggested more and stricter licencing would be good for your pockets. Not the same thing.

he suggested i should not work,
the current system does not work people pass and then drive like ****. current enforcement is not working so we either give up all licences or tighten up some how.

 

[Justme]

I would hazard that almost none of the membership could go and sit a normal car driving test tomorrow and come even close to passing. Not because standards have slipped but because the passing criteria has become more strict nowadays. You literally have to 'know' a whole lot more.

yet its the basics that get them, like speeding, not using correct lanes on roundabouts, lack of mirror use or forcing others to stop for you ect ect.
Everyone should be able to pass the basic standard check of a car test at any time. Its the minimum safe standard allowed. your supposed to get better not worse.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

It seems almost like you have some vested interest in making sure there’s as many tests for as many things as possible. Surely not that it makes you money?

he suggested i should not work,
the current system does not work people pass and then drive like ****. current enforcement is not working so we either give up all licences or tighten up some how.

Where exactly?


People drive like pancake flippers because they can get away with it.


Keep the system as is and wave the ban stick about a lot more.

Send em for a retest before they are allowed back on the roads

Driving is a privilege not a right

 

[premmington]

yet its the basics that get them, like speeding, not using correct lanes on roundabouts, lack of mirror use or forcing others to stop for you ect ect.
Everyone should be able to pass the basic standard check of a car test at any time. Its the minimum safe standard allowed. your supposed to get better not worse.

That is actually a good way of describing it

 

[GRW]

I've got C1E on Grandfather's rights. I got a job driving a 7.5T box lorry about 2-weeks later (horrible Bedford TK's mostly, then later Leyland Terriers& Roadrunners, the baby Merc things etc).
Luckily for me, I had a reasonable natural aptitude, and had benefitted from driving tractors helping in hay and silage when a teen.

One if the other guys - hadn't a scooby. Even after months, he still couldn't twig on that if the central RSJ pillar of our 4-lorry Loading Bay wasn't in either of his mirrors.... that it was behind him. It became a regular high-point when the rest of us were back in the yard before poor Dennis - to go watch and cheer as he inevitably backed the truck into the RSJ and made the whole structure ring like a bell .

But.... Dennis was a bit of an anomaly, in that he was trying to drive a vehicle that he clearly hadn't got the ability to.
There's a LOT of people with my level of licence, who won't contemplate towing a dinky trailer, let alone a 3500kg trailer behind a large 4x4, or a 7.5T lorry.
Things like the extra weight of a load on handling and braking - can be felt within a very short distance, and IMO anyone with any feel for driving will adapt accordingly.

Conversely everyone believes they can drive a car - and a short drive anywhere will quickly demonstrate that that is very far from the truth.

The amount of people who cannot reverse a car in a straight line is staggering - how the hell did they ever get granted a licence? There are plenty who don't possess the temperament, attitude, mentality to be loose in tonnes of metal - but they are just the same.

The focus on speed as an easy target for a lazy police force to boost revenue and their "figures" - means that all the truly dangerous and incompetent stay on the highway, causing mayhem with impunity.
Given that any Co hiring drivers needs to maintain its Insurance Costs to a sustainable (exorbitant) level - it's on their interest to check that any employee is reasonably competent in their vehicles, so I'd rather see the Govt pressing to get the lousy car drivers off the road - and eventually the driving standard will rise anyway

 

[Agrismith]

L

Where exactly?


People drive like pancake flippers because they can get away with it.


Keep the system as is and wave the ban stick about a lot more.

Send em for a retest before they are allowed back on the roads

Driving is a privilege not a right

Unfortunately whilst this should be the case the public transport in this country is so dire that a car is essential for most the population. We really need to start right at the beginning and improve public transport to the point it is preferable to driving.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

L



Unfortunately whilst this should be the case the public transport in this country is so dire that a car is essential for most the population. We really need to start right at the beginning and improve public transport to the point it is preferable to driving.

If it's essential then perhaps driving like that's the case would be a good idea.

Sick of reading people avoided a ban because they cried to the judge about there livelyhood. If it was so important perhaps they should have acted like it was.

Maybe then we would see an improvement in standards.

 

[cheb]

I drive a 4.5T Luton bodied van for work and consequently have to sit through CPC training. As I've said before is less an attendance course and more an endurance course, the quality of training over the years has been variable, all the way from terrible to excellent. Running your hand over the tyres to check it's OK? Errr no, I'll give that one a miss. It's taken about 5 years to get the correct answer to a specific question about another job, non driving, I have.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Do you work for free?

No, but neither do I pretend I do it for anything other than money. You seem to crawl out of the woodwork only when you can shout about safety and doom

 

[premmington]

No, but neither do I pretend I do it for anything other than money. You seem to crawl out of the woodwork only when you can shout about safety and doom

 

[minimutly]

Not by me I agree the standard of most trainers is dire.
The Gov are looking at bringing back in the LGV trainer register that they allowed to be privatised years back.

This issue is most could not pass the car test again as they have let the standards slip.

Re your last point I do have to disagree. The ten year point is when for most standards have dropped & they need a reason to get back up to speed.

IF everyone drove correctly then to pass a HGV test all you would need is to get used to the size / handling.
In reality most of the course is putting right basic bad driving skills.

I get about 1 or 2 every year that I would not give a shopping trolly certificate too never mind allow to drive a car.

And I've been saying for years, bring in compulsory retests every 5 or 10 years for car drivers. Suspect you could add up to 7.5t drivers to that as well, but the issue is mostly dire car driving standards.
And whilst I'm at it, why oh why am I still subsidising hauliers who carry one or sometimes two axles around with them? Bin this stupid loophole taxation class asap. One day I'll work out what the daily tonnage of steel and rubber carried around the UK is - I bet its a lot...

 

[premmington]

And I've been saying for years, bring in compulsory retests every 5 or 10 years for car drivers. Suspect you could add up to 7.5t drivers to that as well, but the issue is mostly dire car driving standards.
And whilst I'm at it, why oh why am I still subsidising hauliers who carry one or sometimes two axles around with them? Bin this stupid loophole taxation class asap. One day I'll work out what the daily tonnage of steel and rubber carried around the UK is - I bet its a lot...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/907390/v149x1-rates-of-vehicle-tax.pdf

Lorry roadtax does not look too expensive to me - not comparred with other costs of running a lorry - purchase/fuel/testing

 

[minimutly]

I would hazard that almost none of the membership could go and sit a normal car driving test tomorrow and come even close to passing. Not because standards have slipped but because the passing criteria has become more strict nowadays. You literally have to 'know' a whole lot more.

Did my bike test ladt year. Had to sit the theory (everyone driving should be able to do that lets be honest), hazard perception - guesswork in some cases, and then mod1 to show you were capable of handling, weaving, stopping etc. Then finally 40 minutes friving around Pembroke dock.
A lot harder than the test I did 40 odd yrs ago (6 lessons to pass).
So yes, it is harder to pass these days.
So why are driving standards so poor?

 

[premmington]

Did my bike test ladt year. Had to sit the theory (everyone driving should be able to do that lets be honest), hazard perception - guesswork in some cases, and then mod1 to show you were capable of handling, weaving, stopping etc. Then finally 40 minutes friving around Pembroke dock.
A lot harder than the test I did 40 odd yrs ago (6 lessons to pass).
So yes, it is harder to pass these days.
So why are driving standards so poor?

Are they actually that poor?

Deaths on UK roads is decreasing - 16% down on a rolling three year average.

------------

Training industry would have you believe we all need retraining (money in the bank).

Speed awareness industry would have believe we are tearing about (money in the bank).

Police would knick anybody for speeding (money in the bank).

-----------

But UK roads and drivers have never been so safe!

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Are they actually that poor?

Deaths on UK roads is decreasing - 16% down on a rolling three year average.

------------

Training industry would have you believe we all need retraining (money in the bank).

Speed awareness industry would have believe we are tearing about (money in the bank).

Police would knick anybody for speeding (money in the bank).

-----------

But UK roads and drivers have never been so safe!

And yet I see people disproving that many times a day.

Especially noticeable In a van. People late for work desperate to get past the van by any means they can.

 

[minimutly]

Are they actually that poor?

Deaths on UK roads is decreasing - 16% down on a rolling three year average.

------------

Training industry would have you believe we all need retraining (money in the bank).

Speed awareness industry would have believe we are tearing about (money in the bank).

Police would knick anybody for speeding (money in the bank).

-----------

But UK roads and drivers have never been so safe!

Thats because cars have never been so safe, and the number of speed restricted roads have increased.
Take a spin round my neck of the woods - you need quick reactions to get out of the way.
Agree about the money in the bank stuff, but none of it improves standards.