Driving licence changes?

[Justme]

Numbers are off but size is right. Most manufacturers use the same chassis from 7-15t MAN even use the same axles upto 12t
What I did my test in was physically no bigger than a 7.5t towing an ifor trailer. Just plated heavier.

But you cant use a 15T MAM vehicle combination, the total must be 20t.
As far as I know Ifor dont make an air braked trailer so that cant be over 3500kg either.
The trailer must be carrying 3t & weight at least 2t unladen.

A CE combo must actually weight 15t at all times.
Its GTW must be over 20t.

Yes some sue the minimum possible to make it easy / cheaper to run.
People will always do that, but clients also choose trainers based on vehicles that are close to what they want to drive after.
One local company only did wagon & drag, another only artic. Both lost out to each other as clients wanted one or the other.

I use a small (but well over min spec) vehicle for C1 BUT its not about the vehicle its about the training I give.
I thought long and hard before using a smaller vehicle to do it.
But in the end I train to think & if you think correctly you can drive anything.

 

[bump]

I've noticed a definite increase round here of badly driven trailers since the changes, I'm expecting similar with these changes too (it's all been the horsey mob). Between this and the push for computer based self driving, I expect my life insurance will be paying out before long.

 

[Justme]

1, The guy my pal did his with reckoned as long as it’s over 7.5 it doesn’t matter.


2, Just because you’ve not seen it, doesn’t mean it’s ********, next time you’re at a text centre, open your eyes

1, You pal's guy does not know the rules.
I posted the rules.
It cant just be over 7.5t Its got to be 12t MAM minimum and have a real weight of 10T for a start.
It must meet the minimum specifications.
2, I am there a lot. I never see crazy small units used for C or CE.
But not saying that some trainers in other areas will use the minimum spec vehicles. However the min spec is still far more than the numbers quoted or the must be over 7.5T craziness.

In fact locally most use 6 axle artic units or large wagon & drags.
Some even had to be altered as they were too long to be allowed on test.

 

[Agrismith]

You’re far to clever for me so I bow out
I suggest petitioning dvsa as 7.5 are not a vehicle that needs respect. So no need for tacho or strict mot tests etc

I'm not saying they don't need respect. I'm saying they require no more skill than a transit. So either require a second license for 3.5t and above or keep the 7.5t on the same license. The testing in this country is pretty pointless anyway. And doesn't in the slightest change people's driving once the license is completed.
We need to stop thinking that licenses and tickets are the answer to everything in this country.

But you cant use a 15T MAM vehicle combination, the total must be 20t.
As far as I know Ifor dont make an air braked trailer so that cant be over 3500kg either.
The trailer must be carrying 3t & weight at least 2t unladen.

A CE combo must actually weight 15t at all times.
Its GTW must be over 20t.

Yes some sue the minimum possible to make it easy / cheaper to run.
People will always do that, but clients also choose trainers based on vehicles that are close to what they want to drive after.
One local company only did wagon & drag, another only artic. Both lost out to each other as clients wanted one or the other.

I use a small (but well over min spec) vehicle for C1 BUT its not about the vehicle its about the training I give.
I thought long and hard before using a smaller vehicle to do it.
But in the end I train to think & if you think correctly you can drive anything.

I wasn't towing an ifor I think it was a Mac but physically it took up the same amount of space as an ifor. The weight may be more but the physical size of the setup was the same as a 7.5t towing an ifor is what I mean. Hardly comparable to an arctic.
The training provider I did it with also bought the lorry new so all there lorries where the minimum wheelbase allowed and a tiny rear overhang past the back tyre. Again absolutely nothing like driving a rigid with the tag lifted

 

[James1979]

I wasn't towing an ifor I think it was a Mac but physically it took up the same amount of space as an ifor. The weight may be more but the physical size of the setup was the same as a 7.5t towing an ifor is what I mean. Hardly comparable to an arctic.
The training provider I did it with also bought the lorry new so all there lorries where the minimum wheelbase allowed and a tiny rear overhang past the back tyre. Again absolutely nothing like driving a rigid with the tag lifted

you ain’t gonna win!! He’d pick an argument in an empty room.

Another one for the tard list.

 

[pressbrake1]

you ain’t gonna win!! He’d pick an argument in an empty room.

Another one for the tard list.

I’m a Retard?

 

[James1979]

I’m a Retard?

No mate. Sorry. He quoted two at once! Got a bit disjointed

 

[pressbrake1]

1, You pal's guy does not know the rules.
I posted the rules.
It cant just be over 7.5t Its got to be 12t MAM minimum and have a real weight of 10T for a start.
It must meet the minimum specifications.
2, I am there a lot. I never see crazy small units used for C or CE.
But not saying that some trainers in other areas will use the minimum spec vehicles. However the min spec is still far more than the numbers quoted or the must be over 7.5T craziness.

In fact locally most use 6 axle artic units or large wagon & drags.
Some even had to be altered as they were too long to be allowed on test.

I passed mine in the 90s with a 12t Iveco and drag
On the Monday I went out in a bulker.
What a unpleasant shock when reversing and the front corner of the trailer pops round and blocks your view!!!

 

[Justme]

1, I'm saying they require no more skill than a transit. So either require a second license for 3.5t and above or keep the 7.5t on the same license.


2, I wasn't towing an ifor I think it was a Mac but physically it took up the same amount of space as an ifor. The weight may be more but the physical size of the setup was the same as a 7.5t towing an ifor is what I mean. Hardly comparable to an arctic.
3, The training provider I did it with also bought the lorry new so all there lorries where the minimum wheelbase allowed and a tiny rear overhang past the back tyre. Again absolutely nothing like driving a rigid with the tag lifted

1, have you see the standard that most vans are driven at?
It is time 2.5t plus became MORE regulated as so many are over loaded, driven for more hors than are allowed ect ect.

2, In that case then scrap the artic test too as I have driven pickup & trailer combos that are as long as an artic.

3, They must be coining it in, most trainers use well used vehicles.


For me all this re weight / size is missing the point.
Your right the training / testing we currently have is crap.
We need to change minds & not teach to pass tests.
This is what I do.
I teach you to be the best driver you can be.
Because of that you will pass the test (96% first time which is miles above the national or local standards for over all passes).
Those skills can then transfer to any vehicle.

If you can drive to a professional standard taking into account all factors then you can drive anything.

I passed CE in an artic having never driven a full sized lorry over 7.5t.

My first paying driving job was is an 8 wheeler ridged collecting milk on narrow lanes marked unsuitable for hgv.
So easy to drive compared to an artic.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

1, have you see the standard that most vans are driven at?
It is time 2.5t plus became MORE regulated as so many are over loaded, driven for more hors than are allowed ect ect.

2, In that case then scrap the artic test too as I have driven pickup & trailer combos that are as long as an artic.

3, They must be coining it in, most trainers use well used vehicles.


For me all this re weight / size is missing the point.
Your right the training / testing we currently have is crap.
We need to change minds & not teach to pass tests.
This is what I do.
I teach you to be the best driver you can be.
Because of that you will pass the test (96% first time which is miles above the national or local standards for over all passes).
Those skills can then transfer to any vehicle.

If you can drive to a professional standard taking into account all factors then you can drive anything.

I passed CE in an artic having never driven a full sized lorry over 7.5t.

My first paying driving job was is an 8 wheeler ridged collecting milk on narrow lanes marked unsuitable for hgv.
So easy to drive compared to an artic.

No thanks.

My vans neither overloaded or run for long hours. It takes me and my tools to site only.
Regulate the vehicles transporting goods by all means.

I don't need any more red tape.

 

[Mick Annick]

I passed mine in the 90s with a 12t Iveco and drag
On the Monday I went out in a bulker.
What a unpleasant shock when reversing and the front corner of the trailer pops round and blocks your view!!!

Try driving an artic car transporter when the view out of the windscreen is the underside of a Fiesta! I’m thankful the test was unladen - Dagenham 1991, collar and tie compulsory!

 

[premmington]

Very few 7.5ton vehicles on the roads now.

The C1 fleet and its use since 2000​

Since 2000, both the number of C1 vehicles licenced and the overall distance travelled by these vehicles has declined by 58%, from around 4.7 billion kilometres in 2000 to 2.0 billion kilometres in 2019. Over this period, there have also been the following trends:

• a flattening of distances travelled by articulated HGVs
• increases in the number of licenced HGVs, with the heaviest weights (40 tonnes and over) increasing from 29,8000 vehicles in 2000 to 108,500 vehicles in 2019, indicating a shift towards heavier vehicles to move more goods in one load
• large increases in distances travelled by lighter commercial vehicles under 3.5 tonnes (such as vans), which increased by 71% between 2000 and 2019

Some of the shift towards smaller vehicles may be explained by the introduction of C1 testing practices in 1997, but other factors, such as increase in ‘last mile delivery’ (the last leg of journey from a transportation hub to a final destination), are also likely explanations. There may be other factors. We are interested in views on this.

However, the number of category C1 tests has increased, from 4,900 in 2015 to 6,400 by 2019, with a typical pass rate of around 70%. A substantial majority of these will be police officers and paramedics.

This suggests that although the fleet and distance travelled has decreased, there is a still an increasing need for qualified C1 licence holders to drive the current fleet. We welcome views on whether there is a need for more C1 licence holders to ensure the current fleet can operate and if industry considers there to be a driver shortage in this space.

 

[Ruffian]

Can we change this around also though.

5tonne sprinters/5tonne crafter ambulances.

These are great to convert to motorhomes but awkward to buy unless already downplayed.

If I could leave it at 5tonne and motorhome it it means that would leave more room and less chance of running a 3.5tonne at its limit.

 

[premmington]

Can we change this around also though.

5tonne sprinters/5tonne crafter ambulances.

These are great to convert to motorhomes but awkward to buy unless already downplayed.

If I could leave it at 5tonne and motorhome it it means that would leave more room and less chance of running a 3.5tonne at its limit.

This is where a 5ton van/truck really is good.

Payloads for (on average):

3500kg type vehicles = 1500kg
7500kg type vehicles = 2400kg
12000kg type vehicles = 6000kg

New 5.5ton Merc sprinter chassis cabs can carry 2950kg (with a body on the back).

Mercedes-Benz Media

Exklusive Einblicke und individuelle Angebote: Erleben Sie mit Mercedes-Benz das Maximum aus digitaler Live-PR. Exclusive insights and individual offers: Experience the maximum of digital live PR with Mercedes-Benz.

group-media.mercedes-benz.com

​

 

[Ruffian]

This is where a 5ton van/truck really is good.

Payloads for (on average):

3500kg type vehicles = 1500kg
7500kg type vehicles = 2400kg
12000kg type vehicles = 6000kg

New 5.5ton Merc sprinter chassis cabs can carry 2950kg (with a body on the back).

Mercedes-Benz Media

Exklusive Einblicke und individuelle Angebote: Erleben Sie mit Mercedes-Benz das Maximum aus digitaler Live-PR. Exclusive insights and individual offers: Experience the maximum of digital live PR with Mercedes-Benz.

group-media.mercedes-benz.com

​

Agreed but I still can't drive them at the moment unless I go through and do my c1 licence.

Where as If this does change a 5tonne would be sensible viable option for me to convert for motorcycles and camper.

 

[premmington]

Agreed but I still can't drive them at the moment unless I go through and do my c1 licence.

Where as If this does change a 5tonne would be sensible viable option for me to convert for motorcycles and camper.

I have thought for a long while a 5.5ton class of vehicle - with relaxed driver licencing - maybe a higher road tax band and bi annual MOT testing - call a class 7 MOT test a 7a if you want - it would work. The vehicles are out there - the need is there - we are geared up to MOT test them without flooding HGV test bays.

 

[Ruffian]

I have thought for a long while a 5.5ton class of vehicle - with relaxed driver licencing - maybe a higher road tax band and bi annual MOT testing - call a class 7 MOT test a 7a if you want - it would work. The vehicles are out there - the need is there - we are geared up to MOT test them without flooding HGV test bays.

Yep or just boost the 3.5tonne up to a 5tonne restriction.

This way still locks out most air brake hgv and just have larger iveco and sprinters involved etc.

 

[Tinbasherdan]

1, have you see the standard that most vans are driven at?
It is time 2.5t plus became MORE regulated as so many are over loaded, driven for more hors than are allowed ect ect.

2, In that case then scrap the artic test too as I have driven pickup & trailer combos that are as long as an artic.

3, They must be coining it in, most trainers use well used vehicles.


For me all this re weight / size is missing the point.
Your right the training / testing we currently have is crap.
We need to change minds & not teach to pass tests.
This is what I do.
I teach you to be the best driver you can be.
Because of that you will pass the test (96% first time which is miles above the national or local standards for over all passes).
Those skills can then transfer to any vehicle.

If you can drive to a professional standard taking into account all factors then you can drive anything.

I passed CE in an artic having never driven a full sized lorry over 7.5t.

My first paying driving job was is an 8 wheeler ridged collecting milk on narrow lanes marked unsuitable for hgv.
So easy to drive compared to an artic.

It seems almost like you have some vested interest in making sure there’s as many tests for as many things as possible. Surely not that it makes you money?

 

[premmington]

Gonna get "my head bit off" maybe?

I not sure all this driver training is adding too much to the party. Even the Government is questioning the standard of it?

It did create a whole industry of "trainers charging money for training".

My thinking is: If you are not good enough to drive a C1 class vehicle (7.5tonner) on a B class car licence. You were not good enough to pass you car driving test.

All this "it has airbrakes" - to me a small rigid vehicle is anything upto 7500kg. Be it a car or small lorry.

Wanna solve the "lorry driver issue" - let anybody over 30 - who has held a B class licence with no convictions for ten years - drive vehicles up to 12000kg and it would all be over.

 

[Justme]

It seems almost like you have some vested interest in making sure there’s as many tests for as many things as possible. Surely not that it makes you money?

Do you work for free?