Surely it's Hobson's choice at the moment. Since the wind doesn't always blow and the sun always shine we need a source which is capable of meeting a large chunk of the load regardless of weather conditions. I'm sure in years to come the boffins will find other low carbon sources but until then nuclear looks our best choice. As electrical demand increases, we need to be planning ahead a lot more quickly than we do currently. Always seems that unpopular decisions are put off for fear of losing votes. Perhaps major infrastructure projects could be dealt with by a non government organisation. Unfortunately with Hobson's choice you have to pay the going rate.
- Thread starter ukracer
- Start date
- Status
premmington
Member
- Messages
- 6,204
- Location
- Norfolk
Nuclear power plants with carbon dioxide turbines. Are smaller and cheap than water cooled steam reactors of the past.
I think we really gotta build Nuclear plants with a longer lifecycle to them - to make the energy cheaper.
daleyd
Member
- Messages
- 10,424
- Location
- Wrexham, North Wales
Probably easier said than done - the current issue with the french plants has come about because they have extended the lifespan from the original 30 years and they are having to have more frequent inspections…
Also worth nothing that a lot (all?) of their plants have been financed by the state and are now getting quite old. The true costs of the construction of these has been difficult to find out, as they have historically manipulated budgets to hide the true costs. The true cost of french energy is hard to determine as it’s so heavily subsidised by the state - they would be facing similar price rises to us had their government not basically told (the mostly state owned) edf to absorb the costs.
If nuclear was such a cheap way of generating electricity surely there would be loads of private companies ploughing money into the construction and running of plants…the fact there isn’t tells you it probably isn’t all that cheap.
It’s not a bad thing, it serves a purpose - we just shouldn’t pretend its cheap when it isn’t by the time you add up all the costs (including the hidden ones)…
It’s needed, for sure, but it’s not the answer to every problem.
Except for the Rolls Royce SMRs and many other smaller reactors planned around the World.
I suspect they aren't as efficient as the huge plants but certainly cheaper and quicker to build and seemingly less politically sensitive.
daleyd
Member
- Messages
- 10,424
- Location
- Wrexham, North Wales
Except for what? None have been built as yet so I’m talking about what’s around now, this minute.
I agree it is VERY difficult to get proper figures as they are all manipulated so much - but the same can be said of solar and wind.
The Rolls Royce reactors will be sold as commercial ventures. They will be cheap enough for private companies to buy and run. Even the likes of Google and Amazon are looking into them to run data centres and sell the surplus.
Time will tell. They are welcome to put one in my warehouse
daleyd
Member
- Messages
- 10,424
- Location
- Wrexham, North Wales
Nice turn around back to wind and solar from a post about nuclearI agree it is VERY difficult to get proper figures as they are all manipulated so much - but the same can be said of solar and wind.
The Rolls Royce reactors will be sold as commercial ventures. They will be cheap enough for private companies to buy and run. Even the likes of Google and Amazon are looking into them to run data centres and sell the surplus.
Time will tell. They are welcome to put one in my warehouse
But yeah, I admire your optimism that the SMR design WILL be cheap enough for private companies. I’m actually hopeful they take off but I’ve had a decade of working in and around the nuclear industry and am pretty sure they won’t be on time time or on budget.
Should they go ahead - yeah of course but there’s a long way to go before we know the true cost.
I think they are already choosing the sites for the factories - it will mean a lot of good quality engineering and welding jobs in this country which has to be a good thing!Nice turn around back to wind and solar from a post about nuclear
But yeah, I admire your optimism that the SMR design WILL be cheap enough for private companies. I’m actually hopeful they take off but I’ve had a decade of working in and around the nuclear industry and am pretty sure they won’t be on time time or on budget.
Should they go ahead - yeah of course but there’s a long way to go before we know the true cost.
daleyd
Member
- Messages
- 10,424
- Location
- Wrexham, North Wales
Yes of course - I actually hope to get some work from it myself (or at least the company I work for) having been involved with the manufacturing process of the last couple of designs!
That's another thing I hate about all these windmills. Nearly all made abroad
premmington
Member
- Messages
- 6,204
- Location
- Norfolk
I agree it is VERY difficult to get proper figures as they are all manipulated so much - but the same can be said of solar and wind.
The Rolls Royce reactors will be sold as commercial ventures. They will be cheap enough for private companies to buy and run. Even the likes of Google and Amazon are looking into them to run data centres and sell the surplus.
Time will tell. They are welcome to put one in my warehouse
If you are really worried about the planet - cost should not come into it!
I am worried about the cost! Also I don't like the idea of nuclear truthfully.
But at this time and with the net zero target - I am pro nuclear as I don't think we have another choice with the tech we have about us.
Tech will move on - fossil fuel prices will increase making the "nuclear option look cheaper".
Gareth J
Member
- Messages
- 3,680
- Location
- North Cornwall
Theres no figure manipulation involved if you get your own solar or wind generator. You said your father might expect a 10yr payback (seems pessimistic but hey ho) on an array, or shorter DIY. Good luck building a garden fission reactor at all, let alone with a sub 10yr payback.
Maker
Most folk just call me; Orange Joe
- Messages
- 10,621
- Location
- Keeler crater
Actually, plenty of people have built DIY fusion reactors, Google "fusor".
It doesn't produce any power though, just a pretty blue plasma.
Not really relevant to this discussion, I just think it's interesting.
As I have said many times - I am not against people having their own solar! Makes sense with the current prices.
Gareth J
Member
- Messages
- 3,680
- Location
- North Cornwall
My home solar is a microcosm of a bigger array. Might as well make hay when the sun shines, whether it's on my little roof, the roof of a big factory or some marginal ground.
If we get to a point where, when it's sunny, the grid is so overstocked, it can't take anymore solar, and by dropping prices to zero, or below zero, we can't soak up oversupply effectively, fair enough. But, grid bottlenecks aside, we're not there yet. I also don't suppose we'll get to that point either or at least not for very long. Ingenious people will see near zero or negative energy prices and do ingenious things with it. Stash it in high energy raw materials, like aluminium, or AN fertilizer. Or even hydrogen. Who knows.
In the mean time, yes, we ought to have better supported standby gas turbines and have invested in nuclear too. But it's not an either or, it's everything and more!
We used to have a nice balanced grid back in the 80s to 2010 - and prices weren't so bad - I wonder what changed
Kayos
Gone......
- Messages
- 9,422
- Location
- Yorkshire
That's another thing I hate about all these windmills. Nearly all made abroad
Except the thousands produced in Hull?
daleyd
Member
- Messages
- 10,424
- Location
- Wrexham, North Wales
Well, for a start we used to get 40% or more of our electric from coal, thats probably the biggest change...We used to have a nice balanced grid back in the 80s to 2010 - and prices weren't so bad - I wonder what changed
Would you be suggesting we go back to that?
Gareth J
Member
- Messages
- 3,680
- Location
- North Cornwall
Lots of things.We used to have a nice balanced grid back in the 80s to 2010 - and prices weren't so bad - I wonder what changed
That is fairly recent. The vast majority are built in Denmark.
- Status
