What welder to buy plz ?

[3 Ducks]

HI, shortly I will be looking to buy a MIG welder.
Any advice which one please? i want to weld car body pannels and thiick steel plate as well..
Looking to spend up £450..
Dont dont mind a good second hand one.. prefer a known make..
Thanks Ray.

P.S. My TIG welding is coming along

 

[weldequip]

When you say "thick steel plate", what thickness are you talking about? A new £450 machine will do 5-6mm maximum (realistically).
weldequip

 

[3 Ducks]

Hi weldquip..
I would say thin plate 0.8mm up to 6mm (mild steel).
at a guess 30A upwards ! And to take 1mm / 1.2mm diameter feed wire for the heavy jobs !
what i would like is a constantly variable voltage output, or as many "clicks" as possible to select the optimised current,
its a wish list i know
Regards Ray :

 

[weldequip]

You'll not get anything new for £450 for that kind of spec. You would also be looking at 300amps + to be able to run 1.2mm wire, which normally means 3 phase machines. You can get 300/350 single phase machines but they are like hen's teath second hand.
weldequip

 

[3 Ducks]

thanks for your advice weldquip..
im more or less wanting a good welder for car pannels and able to weld thinker plate when required !
Any advice would be apreceated.

 

[DIY Welding]

Have you got three phase?

 

[3 Ducks]

Hi DIY Welding,
I do have a 3 phase transverter in my workshop which is large enough to power my lathe with ease.
I was thinking about a single phase unit, Shortly I will be a self emplyed "maintainence man" so having a standard 240v plug socket would be handy when im working on site.. The transveter is a bit heavy to lug about, however i do prefer 3 phase equipment.
The dream of a murex is fading Rapidly
Any advice or opinion based on your experience would be appreciated

 

[Haze]

a maintenance man doing 6mm steel? what kind of maintenance work will you be doing exactly?

 

[shenion]

The transverter will not run a welder. They are for motors only. The only run the motors on 2-phase. The third phase is driven by capacitors and is only used on startup. Once running the 3rd line is basically not used. That is why they say you will get 2/3 the HP out of the motor.

A 3-phase welder will want equal power on all 3 phases for best correct operation.

Now, you can us a rotary 3-phase converter (motor-generator or phase converter that uses a motor to create 3-phase rotating field). Big, heavy and expensive.

 

[3 Ducks]

Firstly,
Many thanks your message shenion, you certainly know your stuff, and probabley saved me a lot of time and money it i attempted that !
I owe you a beer
--------------------------------------
HI Haze !
Good to meet you for rhe first time, I will be doing maintanence and enginering, so a welder "which can pile it on" would come in handy if i have to modify or repair a structure, generally speaking i'll have a go at anything, i'm a time served engineer with a 5 year craft apprenticship, just coming to the end of 20 years of working nights - so getting a few things together.. I look forward to sleeping at night !

 

[Haze]

Good to meet you to,

without sounding cute I take it you are certified for structural welding?

You may have to get a small mig for panel work and then a stick welder for the heavy stuff, like the man said getting a big mig thats single phase for your budget would be difficult, are you mobile or in house?

 

[Drains]

3 Ducks, I'd be more inclined to get a Mig for the small and medium work and a MMA inverter set for the bigger stuff.

As you'll know, theres no problem with multiple runs and you can do big old welds (and wee ones) that way. More handy on site too. It's a standard piece of kit for the repair and fab co's round here.

You can pick up something decent off ebay for under £200 if you're lucky. If you don't have the money now, wait till the job comes that you need it for, then go shopping! It'll pay for itself.

As for the Mig - If you can get a 200A set you won't have a problem with duty cycle too often, and will be able to do 6mm welds.

On your budget you'll (probably) have to go 2nd hand though. But i'd recommend one of the bigger Clarke 1 phase sets. Buy on a VAT free day and you can get the price down to under £500.

Si

 

[Drains]

Good to meet you to,

without sounding cute I take it you are certified for structural welding?

There is no such thing Haze. You get codings for different positional work/ materials/ disciplines, but any old Harry can weld on a site. It's down to the inspectors/contractor to check the quality of the work and abilities/experience of the welder. If they need codings, they'll ask for them.

 

[DIY Welding]

The problem with large single phase machines is the do not work well on low amps, because the transformer and rectifier is bulit to run at say 200A I have found when you switch them down they do not weld as well as a 180A single phase machine that has been built to work on thin plate, I would buy a single phase mig 240V 13A for up to 6mm then I would get a single phase 160A inverter for the heavy plate work, you can run a 4mm rod on a 160A inverter and take on site no problem

 

[3 Ducks]

Good to meet you to,

without sounding cute I take it you are certified for structural welding?

You may have to get a small mig for panel work and then a stick welder for the heavy stuff, like the man said getting a big mig thats single phase for your budget would be difficult, are you mobile or in house?

I ment engineering fabrication structure not a bridge or building , At work, in the past, Ive MIG welded up fabrications for jigs and fixtures then passed on the the machine shop. I'm not certified for structural, just worked in the fab shop for a while to do some basic mild steel and ally welding.
Regarding your last question, I have a small workshop with machine tools, will maintain and repair on site, anything that needs detail engineering work i will do back at the workshop !
Thats the plan anyway

 

[3 Ducks]

Hello Si, Thanks for your input, i will be starting on my own in mid august, will get back to you later this afternoon..
ive just come off a 12 hr nite shift (not welding) and my bed is calling ..
Have a good day !

 

[Haze]

There is no such thing Haze. You get codings for different positional work/ materials/ disciplines, but any old Harry can weld on a site. It's down to the inspectors/contractor to check the quality of the work and abilities/experience of the welder. If they need codings, they'll ask for them.

seems strange !?!

google showed me this, but I cant seem to turf up any information on those BS numbers, it may refer to materials used but until I get to read them I have no idea.

The Impact of new European product standards on structural steel fabrication
12/04/2007

The new European standard contains new and onerous requirements for the control of welding and related operations and will require Steelwork Contractors to comply with the quality requirements for welding given in BS EN ISO 3834 and the requirements for welding coordination given in BS EN ISO 14731.

 

[Drains]

The new European standard contains new and onerous requirements for the control of welding and related operations and will require Steelwork Contractors to comply with the quality requirements for welding given in BS EN ISO 3834 and the requirements for welding coordination given in BS EN ISO 14731.

Indeed. No mention of certificates though!
Most manufactured things have to comply with something or other these days, and quite right too. But control of welding and welding ops may well mean the welding procedures are "appropriate", or specced/engineered by a "responsible" or "suitably qualified" (or experienced) person, and "adequately" inspected, and that the procedures are followed by an appropriately "qualified" (or experienced) welder etc etc.

There may well be paperwork to go with this, not least certification. But that is more likely simply a confirmation that the structure has been designed and built to BS EN ISO whatever. And thus labelled with a CE mark!

Si

 

[snowcat]

Good to meet you to,

without sounding cute I take it you are certified for structural welding?

Si's right there is no need for codeing unless insurance demands it, I looked into this in some detail a few years ago when I was doing some med presure steam pipe, codeings and BS no.s are specific to 1 job you could be pipe coded in steam to high presure but still not be able to weld a low presure boiler. Each codeing lasts 3 years, its positional and you will be tested to do the weld as you would in the field so to speek, you have a set amount of time to weld and everything is preped 1 chance only the weld is then bend tested and etched pass or fail situation, however codeings are set by loyds of london if you walk on a site and that firm requires for there insurance the work you are carrying out to have a bs no. and be certified you need that codeing otherwise you dont. Another thing with codeings is you MUST follow the same prep plan and design of weld for it to be worth a rub deviate from your norm and you canot put a bs no. on it without it being approved by an inspector. So in short I could continue welding the pipes because the sites insurance did not deam it nessary to have them coded however the boiler was a no go area as that was certified and need bs codeing, I was asked to do a ships crane a couple of months back I knew that would require bs codeing as all lifting gear does so would not touch it as i said though it was a one off job and the work would still have to be inspected.

Oh yes the CE mark is really only another set of no.s for example if I was makeing boilers to a set plan I would put a unique CE certification on each one I make this set of no.s basicly would say I built it on this date, to this plan, aproved design by whoever.

btw many coded guys have to carry hefty insurance as well because they are garentee the work fail safe its not uncomon for dockside codeing to carry 40millon public liability,

I hope you get the genaral drift of what im on about,

 

[3 Ducks]

The company I work for is very strict about quality control; they have regular audits to maintain the AS9000 standard, which enables us/them to take on subcontract work from specific customers.
Its all sounds good, but in reality I just do my best then go home.