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julianthegypsy
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I saw vertical axis windmills at reading university in about 1978 and was impressed. The ones generally seen are tall and thin, but these had the blades about ten feet apart, two blades. They were mounted just off centre too, on a pivot, with a spring between them so they would self regulate in high winds. I never understood why they put brakes on wind turbines, all you have to do is feather the blades or point them away from the wind and problem solved.
DAPPH
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Even windmills whilst doing what you say ,had staking chains / ropes to stop canted blades from turning when it was not needed as the wind will still push the blades round , a discovered safety device I suppose
daleyd
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I think there was a myth that they wouldn’t that has been well and truly debunked - I seem to recall it was a comment by an academic on the subject that was taken completely out of context and got plastered all over social media. He was making a point about badly sited/planned wind projects that may never save the energy expended in manufacture and build but that if they are planned properly they easily exceed this many times over (the end bit was left out and it was latched onto by the baying masses)
General consensus seems to be that they become carbon “neutral” after anything from 6 months to a couple of years and are financially paid back over a similar period (maybe slightly longer for financial payback depending which one you use). There are loads of studies out there about this, if you search “life cycle analysis”.
Gareth J
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Steel embodied energy is about 5000Kwh/ ton. Concrete is about 250/ton
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embodied_energy)
So, our little turbine spits out just under 10,000kWh/year.
Even if you said none of the steel was recyclable (clearly it is) there can't more than a few years of total embodied energy to pay back.
The blades are fibreglass or carbon fibre mix. Usually hand laid up.
And nearly all Britain's turbines have been built abroad. Billions leaving our economy to keep other people in jobs.
Nuclear employs loads of people in Britain during construction and they are good quality jobs as well.
Gareth J
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So? Add their energy embodiment if you like too. I estimate 100kg max. I deliberately erred on the side of caution with "a few years" embodied energy payback estimate to include such additional bits but double it if you like. Still pay for itself multiple times over.
daleyd
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There’s loads of studies (if you can be bothered to look for them 
) that add up all the energy costs to the nth degree and and account for them, and the payback time is still short, in the order of months/a few years. It’s better the bigger the turbine.
I guess it’s just easier to believe what you want to hear rather than actually search out any facts and have a balanced view
) that add up all the energy costs to the nth degree and and account for them, and the payback time is still short, in the order of months/a few years. It’s better the bigger the turbine.I guess it’s just easier to believe what you want to hear rather than actually search out any facts and have a balanced view
Are you telling me that Dogger Bank will break even in months? Or a few years? What do you call a few?There’s loads of studies (if you can be bothered to look for them
I guess it’s just easier to believe what you want to hear rather than actually search out any facts and have a balanced view
daleyd
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No, I’m not telling you that at all. I’m telling you there are plenty of studies I’ve read that show the carbon/financial payback time of wind turbines is in the order of the timescales I mentioned. If you are particularly interested in the Dogger Bank project then you can do your own research and let us know how you get on.
RaceDiagnostics
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I don't understand why there is no talk of gas bills reducing given what's been happening with the wholesale price.
www.economist.com
Wholesale gas prices in Britain have collapsed
But it will not do much to alleviate the cost-of-living crisis
We have no storage.I don't understand why there is no talk of gas bills reducing given what's been happening with the wholesale price.
Wholesale gas prices in Britain have collapsed
But it will not do much to alleviate the cost-of-living crisis
Think of it like your home heating oil. You run out - you fill your tank - it is stupidly expensive but you still need it. So you order and pay. Then 3 weeks later the price crashes. Your tank is full so you can't order more.
Ok that is very simplistic but in essence that is what happens.
No mention of the infra structure needed or the installation costs then?
daleyd
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Have a read of the reports.
Could you post a link please?
If these massive wind turbines break even in a few months I suspect we are paying way too much for our electricity. No wonder the bills are so high.
Gareth J
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You were specifically talking about embodied energy, payback of embodied energy is different to financial payback.
No I wasn't - not me.
Also daleyd mentioned financial payback.
Gareth J
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Apologies, my mistake!
Lewis_RX8
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I don't understand why there is no talk of gas bills reducing given what's been happening with the wholesale price.
Wholesale gas prices in Britain have collapsed
But it will not do much to alleviate the cost-of-living crisis
It is due to our domestic gas being sold on futures markets, current gas prices are low as we have a lot of LNG terminals, Mainland Europe doesn't however we have a few pipelines to the continent so we use our LNG terminals to import gas then sell it through the pipelines to Europe but they are at total flow capacity so there is more gas than the UK can consume or sell and the wholesale prices go down.
But our gas bill is based on future markets where it is assumed this will have balanced out and the UK will be back to paying non artificially decreased prices.
Some proof , I learnt that from a video but here's a short article https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...ing-gas-price-surplus-lower-energy-bills.html
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