Suspension geometry

[chrisg3103]

Little quandary for any suspension boffins. I have a very rusty Freelander 2, went to change the rear shocks and the subframe started falling to bits

Now the supply of non rotted Freelander subframes is sparse and extortionate! So I read about one chap fitting an Evoque frame, same floor pan apparently.

So I now have an Evoque frame and am measuring it up to the original, looking good except the mounts for the control arms are 15mm higher up (closer to frame) than the Freelander. Guessing the Evoque sits lower? So I'm guessing with the original ride height this will introduce positive camber.
But will this effect it in any great way? It's like adding a 15mm lift kit and folk go about fitting 50mm with no suspension mods?

 

[Ubique]

It'll invalidate your insurance unless you declare it as a modification, I'd also check the alignment as the Evoque has wheels that are a bigger rolling circumference, which is why the 'lift' is needed.

 

[pedrobedro]

15mm on an off road type vehicle, I wouldn't even think about it. Just fit it and carry on as normal. Insurance don't go through the vehicle with a fine tooth comb measuring ride height that you could lose just by fitting a different set of tyres. Make yourself a set of adjustable rear control arms to alter the height they don't look complicated.

 

[bert]

15mm probably isn't worth worrying, get it bolted on and measure up.

My Landcruiser is lifted 40mm and when I had the wheel alignment checked it didn't need adjusting.

 

[Pete.]

It'll invalidate your insurance unless you declare it as a modification.

No it won't. The Road Traffic Act specifically prohibits an insurance company from denying 3rd party claims.

They can CANCEL your policy if they find you have deliberately lied about something they have specifically asked. They can reduce a payout (to the insured, not to the 3rd party) if an undeclared modification is a contributing factor in a claim event. They can refuse to re-insure you as a consequence of discovering you have lied. They can take legal action to recover costs incurred as a result of the above but one thing they cannot do is refuse to honour a 3rd party claim on an insurance policy which is at the time valid for the vehicle and journey type it is covering.

 

[bert]

Unless you have caused a serious accident I doubt they will even look at the car and would leave it up to an accident repair center quite to write it off.

 

[tom2207]

Id have it screwed in and never worry ,,

 

[prepman]

Unless you have caused a serious accident I doubt they will even look at the car and would leave it up to an accident repair center quite to write it off.

Insurance companies are practically no different to bookmakers (but not from a legal view, before someone quotes verbatim legal volumes). If they get out of paying they will, but as quite rightly stated the 3rd party cover is cast iron, which will be comforting if one is languishing in a prison cell somewhere.
Back to the geometry I DO know that there are many angles in play with front wheels , castor, camber, inclination, scrub radius (+/-) and of course toe-in. If they are kept good then it should be good. Oh and ride height of course. Nearly forgot wheel base distances.

 

[Pete.]

That's an enormous leap of the imagination.

 

[prepman]

That's an enormous leap of the imagination.

Your imagination or mine?

 

[indy4x]

Back to the geometry I DO know that there are many angles in play with front wheels , castor, camber, inclination, scrub radius (+/-) and of course toe-in. If they are kept good then it should be good. Oh and ride height of course. Nearly forgot wheel base distances.

This is the rear subframe, but same rules apply

 

[Pete.]

Your imagination or mine?

Yours, regarding the prison cell comment that was the end of your post before you edited it to add the suspension bit.

 

[indy4x]

Little quandary for any suspension boffins. I have a very rusty Freelander 2, went to change the rear shocks and the subframe started falling to bits

Now the supply of non rotted Freelander subframes is sparse and extortionate! So I read about one chap fitting an Evoque frame, same floor pan apparently.

So I now have an Evoque frame and am measuring it up to the original, looking good except the mounts for the control arms are 15mm higher up (closer to frame) than the Freelander. Guessing the Evoque sits lower? So I'm guessing with the original ride height this will introduce positive camber.
But will this effect it in any great way? It's like adding a 15mm lift kit and folk go about fitting 50mm with no suspension mods?

Father in Law has been down this road, he found one on eBay from Portugal that didn't break the bank, however everyone else may have found out about this now

 

[prepman]

Yours, regarding the prison cell comment that was the end of your post before you edited it to add the suspension bit.

You mean you don't think that a prison term would be in order if due to dangerous modifications someone was killed? I don't think you are that naive?
I used to build my own trailers. Not any more. But the law has changed, I believe since the guy towing fell asleep on the railway tracks?

 

[Pete.]

You mean you don't think that a prison term would be in order if due to dangerous modifications someone was killed? I don't think you are that naive?
I used to build my own trailers. Not any more. But the law has changed, I believe since the guy towing fell asleep on the railway tracks?

Yeah I can see that but that's not the subject at hand. No-one has mentioned dangerous modifications or quality of work.

 

[Ubique]

You mean you don't think that a prison term would be in order if due to dangerous modifications someone was killed? I don't think you are that naive?
I used to build my own trailers. Not any more. But the law has changed, I believe since the guy towing fell asleep on the railway tracks?

Father jailed after four of his children died in Land Rover river crash

A man has been jailed for causing the death of four of his children who drowned when his Land Rover plunged into a river.

www.telegraph.co.uk

And it wouldn't be the first or last time.

 

[Ubique]

Yeah I can see that but that's not the subject at hand. No-one has mentioned dangerous modifications or quality of work.

Fitting something that would materially change the suspension geometry & therefore the handling could well constitute a dangerous modification

 

[prepman]

Yeah I can see that but that's not the subject at hand. No-one has mentioned dangerous modifications or quality of work.

But it is. It's the issue you raised. Pardon my ignorance if I've got it wrong.....But if a vehicle intended for the highways is heavily modify, which creates a new hybrid i.e. New design, then by law it has to be passed (certified) for roadworthiness? It isn't just an insurance issue?

 

[Pete.]

You're talking SVA test? That requires an inspection but again that's not the case here and it's nothing to do with my response to another member about insurance being invalidated.

 

[Pete.]

Fitting something that would materially change the suspension geometry & therefore the handling could well constitute a dangerous modification

Yes it could, but that doesn't mean that it would. There are thousands of perfectly roadworthy modified vehicles out there.