A surprising cost comparison - ICE / EV

[daleyd]

Big news saving the planet which I think needs affirmative action but if folk think they are doing a good thing going out and buying a new car the reality is they aren't. Whether that's a EV or not, over the next 10 years it's not going to reduce CO2 emissions. Yes it would in the UK as we don't produce many cars, but not in reality.

I’m not disputing that but just pointing out the fact that it’s not as if those people are just not going to buy a car - if they are going to buy a car anyway then they are being “pushed” towards electric. If they weren’t, they would still buy a car.

 

[Burdekin]

I’m not disputing that but just pointing out the fact that it’s not as if those people are just not going to buy a car - if they are going to buy a car anyway then they are being “pushed” towards electric. If they weren’t, they would still buy a car.

I'm sure there are plenty of folk out there that are buying new EVs because they think it's the right thing that do.

My work one of the perks is we have great deals to buy a EV or hybrid. No option to buy petrol or diesel. It's marketed as the green option. My boss sold his car and got a new EV deal and commutes about 110m a day. He is a green employee along with me who cycles 3miles a day. It's just not reality and plenty of folk think it is.

 

[daleyd]

I'm sure there are plenty of folk out there that are buying new EVs because they think it's the right thing that do.

My work one of the perks is we have great deals to buy a EV or hybrid. No option to buy petrol or diesel. It's marketed as the green option. My boss sold his car and got a new EV deal and commutes about 110m a day. He is a green employee along with me who cycles 3miles a day. It's just not reality and plenty of folk think it is.

We are similar, electric next for most company car users or hybrid if you don’t have suitable supply. But otherwise we would still have a new car every 4 years the same as we would for the last x number of years.

So the only difference is that we are being pushed towards an EV - which looks like over the lifetime of the car may be marginally better in terms of total co emissions.

 

[Burdekin]

We are similar, electric next for most company car users or hybrid if you don’t have suitable supply. But otherwise we would still have a new car every 4 years the same as we would for the last x number of years.

So the only difference is that we are being pushed towards an EV - which looks like over the lifetime of the car may be marginally better in terms of total co emissions.

EVs are awesome for cities, that for me is the big plus. Reduced air pollution and noise pollution in populated areas is a very good thing. On my daily cycle commute the difference behind a diesel bus and a hydrogen one is night and day. Diesel buses stink of fumes and are so noisy but the hydrogen has no fumes and so much quieter.

 

[daleyd]

EVs are awesome for cities, that for me is the big plus. Reduced air pollution and noise pollution in populated areas is a very good thing. On my daily cycle commute the difference behind a diesel bus and a hydrogen one is night and day. Diesel buses stink of fumes and are so noisy but the hydrogen has no fumes and so much quieter.

Even though we live semi rural I think an EV will be better for my missus usage - currently her diesel car is getting nowhere near the claimed mpg, due to mostly short journeys and never really getting to proper operating temp.

 

[Burdekin]

Even though we live semi rural I think an EV will be better for my missus usage - currently her diesel car is getting nowhere near the claimed mpg, due to mostly short journeys and never really getting to proper operating temp.

Maybe it wasn't the diesel's fault, maybe your wife does some rally style driving when you aren't in the car. ;-)

 

[daleyd]

Maybe it wasn't the diesel's fault, maybe your wife does some rally style driving when you aren't in the car. ;-)

She’s done some when I have been in the car, not intentionally I might add!

 

[R Kraft]

Going to be tough to lessen our carbon footprint, if we have to burn tires for heat.

 

[R Kraft]

The guy running Ford is concerned about people being able to even afford a car.
"Ford reported that its average transaction price in August hit a new record of approximately $50,800 per vehicle, a $9,700 increase over last year."
As near as I can estimate, in about a year, a car will cost more than a years income.

Ford CEO Farley calls for making EVs more affordable, bringing mining back to US

Making electrical vehicles affordable should be among the top priorities for automakers, said Jim Farley, Ford Motor Co.’s \u00a0president & CEO.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[8ob]

The guy running Ford is concerned about people being able to even afford a car.
"Ford reported that its average transaction price in August hit a new record of approximately $50,800 per vehicle, a $9,700 increase over last year."
As near as I can estimate, in about a year, a car will cost more than a years income.

Ford CEO Farley calls for making EVs more affordable, bringing mining back to US

Making electrical vehicles affordable should be among the top priorities for automakers, said Jim Farley, Ford Motor Co.’s \u00a0president & CEO.

www.detroitnews.com

Folk shouldn't be so hung up on buying top of the range status symbols, car manufacturers would then be forced to make bare bones models costing a fraction of what they do, win win for the environment at the same time.

Bob

 

[Agrismith]

The guy running Ford is concerned about people being able to even afford a car.
"Ford reported that its average transaction price in August hit a new record of approximately $50,800 per vehicle, a $9,700 increase over last year."
As near as I can estimate, in about a year, a car will cost more than a years income.

Ford CEO Farley calls for making EVs more affordable, bringing mining back to US

Making electrical vehicles affordable should be among the top priorities for automakers, said Jim Farley, Ford Motor Co.’s \u00a0president & CEO.

www.detroitnews.com

What does it matter, very very few cars are sold these days. All anyone cares about is the monthly payment. If people actually bought cars there is no way there would be as many top of the range models running around in comparison to poverty spec.
And all the car companies want to encourage pcp deals as they are more profitable

 

[Burdekin]

What does it matter, very very few cars are sold these days. All anyone cares about is the monthly payment. If people actually bought cars there is no way there would be as many top of the range models running around in comparison to poverty spec.
And all the car companies want to encourage pcp deals as they are more profitable

Driverless cars will be next and you won’t even need that either.

 

[R Kraft]

At current inflation rates, the average price for a car, will be over $100,000 in the next 4-5 years.
I wonder how much getting this on the road would be.

 

[brewdexta]

China have secured 89% of the worlds Lithium supplies for the next 20 years or so and you can work out where your battery is most likely to come from.

Not necessarily, battery manufacturers can buy lithium from the Chinese to make their own. Tesla has secured a lithium supply contract with Ganfeng Lithium Co, the world's largest producer of battery-grade lithium

 

[nickk]

This feels like reading the sun

Read?
I thought you just looked at it!

 

[daleyd]

China have secured 89% of the worlds Lithium supplies for the next 20 years or so and you can work out where your battery is most likely to come from.

Any sources for that as it seems at odds with what Goldman Sachs for one say - while it looks like they will have a sizeable proportion it estimates they may have 60% share from 2030… maybe.

 

[Justme]

Have you got a Tesla ? There seems to be more “normal” charging stations than Tesla round here but they do have both.

The local non tesla ones all seem to be 3 to 7kw & still miles away from any routes I use.
Saw some today at Tesco no idea on kw but that shop is 20 miles away.

 

[Justme]

If your in Pwllheli as per profile, then my map shows a couple of pod chargers and 3 Zeronet within approx 5 miles. Also a Tesla charger at Criccieth, 8.9 miles from Pwllheli.
You are in a pretty remote location tbf.

I am 6 miles out of Pwllheli.
Mid wales is more remote lol.
The tesla in Cric is a low powered one I think in a hotel.
The others are 3 to 7 kw & still in remote locations like the National trust car park 8 miles away.
Or on camp sites for members only & 2 on a site that hold thousands of people.

 

[Justme]

At 13kW you are still pumping in more than 40 miles of range every hour. At 50kW you are putting in more than 150 miles range per hour! All you need is enough juice to get you onto the main road arteries where Tesla owners invariably have more options than other as they can use higher power type 2 connections, CCS connections or Teslas own super chargers spread throughout the country which generally have the highest power.

In comparison my Leaf can either use a type 2 connection with a 3.6kW charge rate at 12 miles of range per hour or a CHAdeMO fast charge connection which is getting rarer these days but will give me 60 miles of range in around half an hour.

Ok so I drive to tescos & use the I think 12kw charger.
I do the shop in 1 hour ( I would take half that & the OH twice that lol)
I gain 40 miles range.

I used 40 miles range to go to tesco round trip so net gain zero charge.

Add in that I am off grid so cant charge at home without using dino fuel & it just does not work for me.

 

[Justme]

Currently we are looking for a small run around car.

In the under £5k bracket there are a few Leafs.
BUT all of them have serious battery life degradation to about 50 mile range.

Not only does the reduced range affect you but the charge efficiency will also mean more kw in for less kw out.

Would you buy a car with a 50 mile range?