Grand Cherokee Overland or late Discovery 4 or 5?

[My Old Landy]

My wife has the Mitsi diesel and as Parm says it's ok as a Chelsea tractor but she had to borrow my Toyota Surf this morning to get my son's mountain bike in!



In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.
In the land of the Land Rover the Toyota Landcruiser / Surf / Hilux man is still earning money not fixing his car

I am Land Rover to the core. I just don't consider anything modern is worthy of my cash. I have great fun keeping the 90 going. I don't use it to make money so for me a non issue. If I did, I would have two

 

[Ubique]

From my research its standard on the supercharged, mine certainly has it.

The only build orders that had the active rear differential as 'standard' were the vehicles for Landrover Experience use, 'Special Vehicles' of course could order whatever includes or deletes they required. It's possible that certain dealers always included it in their build specs.

 

[frank horton]

have to be anything Japanese for me.....
I was very happy with my Isuzu trooper Mk2...

 

[Bobupndown]

The issue with the d4 is they snap cranks for fun on the tdv6 3.0l, also have oil pump issues, both connected I suspect. Other than that I'd have one. Parents have a d3, and I have an fl2.

This is the reason I didn't replace my D2 with a D4, although I wanted one soooo much (still do) but head ruled heart on this one and I make the sensible purchase of a Fl2. Great car, good tow car too, just not the 3.5t limit.

 

[sako243]

Not personally owned a D4 or D5 but had a pair of L322s with TDV8s and you're very unlikely to come across a better tow vehicle. Couldn't stand the appearance of a D5 and I've heard of more issues with the TDV6 than the TDV8.

Had a 3.6 for 6 years and was an amazing tow vehicle, a friend had a top of the range Disco 4 and subsequently 5 at the time and said the interior of the L322 was much more comfortable. A few months ago picked up a 4.4TDV8 L322 and it's even more of a refined beast than the 3.6. Towed down to Cornwall from West Wales and got 30mpg, cruising at the limit normally doing about 35mpg. Had a few friends who've had the more modern (equivalent in age) to the L322s and you've got to be careful on which model you pick to get the 3.5t tow capability. They're "generally" more reliable but when they go wrong they're even more difficult and expensive to fix than the Range Rovers.

Another point is if you do your research and not put off by a higher mileage vehicle you can get a hell of a lot of car for not much. My 2011 TDV8 I've currently got had just crossed 125k but with full JLR service history and not a penny spared on it for £12.5k when you bear in mind that it was a £70-80k car a short while ago.

 

[Bobupndown]

Good economy, my Sd4 Fl2 averages 33mpg and towing the caravan brings that down to 21 or 22.

 

[Domdom]

Well, I've said it before, but as a former Land Rover guy for over 30 years I am now free of "Green Oval Disease" since January this year. My wallet is vastly better off for it, I sleep well at night, I no longer have to look forward to the court system to enforce consumer rights and I've found I genuinely can live without one very easily.

Best advice, buy anything that doesn't have "Land Rover" written on it. The new era stuff (L405, D5 etc) doesn't have a lot of the DNA, don't feel like LR used to. The rest of the "Range Rover" badged stuff is purely marketing to charge higher prices and in general they are just mental expensive euroboxes. The old era stuff is becoming too old to be anywhere close to resembling reliable.

For reference, I've had 7 Range Rovers (all series), 4 Discoverys (2, 3 and 4) and 2 Deafeners. And I used to work at JLR so I've seen it from the inside. The quicker they go bust the better. Hopefully next time nobody will bail them out.

Looking at a nice Range Rover Supercharged just for fun and they want 115 bags for it, and that's used. To put that into perspective, spend 30 on a nice pick up for towing, another 60 gets you a very nice Aston or Porsche as a daily and you're still left with 25 for a decent tropical holiday with 15 grand spending money. A tropical holiday where you don't have to worry about the next unexpected bill.

 

[Ubique]

The fact is, motor manufacturers build cars to sell new, used cars they don't really care about other than as a pipeline for aspirational customers who may one day buy new - or choose one as a company car.
I used to have lots of conversations with car owners criticising the manufacturers latest output, the fact is, none of them would ever be in the position to buy new - so (to the manufacturer) their opinion was of no consequence.
JLR and their dealer network are doing very well thanks to 'old money' traditional customers and 'new money' / lease customers, the only thing holding them (and others) back currently is the loss of a couple of semiconductor fabrication facilities in the east.

 

[Agrismith]

For the cost of a d5 you can buy a brand new 4.5l V8 land cruiser with twin difflocks and a reputation for being a million kilometer truck.
Fair enough the d5 is incredible luxury and amazing how fast such a heavy vehicle can be, but they are realistically good for 5 years.
Whilst nice I would not say anything feels quality they are plasticy and tacky
Whereas everything in a 76 serieslancruiser is substatial

 

[Domdom]

The fact is, motor manufacturers build cars to sell new, used cars they don't really care about other than as a pipeline for aspirational customers who may one day buy new - or choose one as a company car.
I used to have lots of conversations with car owners criticising the manufacturers latest output, the fact is, none of them would ever be in the position to buy new - so (to the manufacturer) their opinion was of no consequence.
JLR and their dealer network are doing very well thanks to 'old money' traditional customers and 'new money' / lease customers, the only thing holding them (and others) back currently is the loss of a couple of semiconductor fabrication facilities in the east.

There is so much wrong with your statement it's hard to know where to start.
Approved Used sales are roughly equivalent to new sales (from a dealer principal I know rather well). They also make more profit per vehicle on used. He did mention that without Discovery Sport his new sales would more than halve, which is borne out by the fact that the Itatiaia plant was set up for L550 initially. Quelle surprise, the only model they can actually sell.
If JLR are doing so well please explain the fields of unsold vehicles. Oh, and all the workforce lay-offs. It has very little to do with semiconductors BTW, they simply can't sell what they're making. Also worth noting that the large IT vendors (Cisco, Dell, HP etc) didn't have too much trouble sorting their supply chain. Perhaps even explain their surprise pull out of the business park at J11 where they were going to have their state of the art global parts distribution facility...Could it be they aren't actually doing quite as well as they would have us believe?
Their EV programme is a joke, unless having the Tesla boys in to show them how it's done is considered as innovative.
Ingenium engines. Only JLR could spend that much money producing something so mediocre.
Even "old money" customers as you put it are becoming tired of ever lowering quality standards. And yes, I've bought new before but JLR are just not worthy of my money any more. If it has to be plastic it may as well be Japanese at half the price and ten times the reliability. Better still, German. At least they have a build quality which isn't roughly the same as a cereal box. In fact my last new car purchase was my wife's Merc E Class Cabriolet in 2018. 3 years old next month so due to be changed and in that time it's cost me 1071.00 for servicing, 310 for a pair of back tyres and erm, nothing else. Not a single breakdown, no malfunctions, just solid germanic reliability for 3 years. Even she says never again after over 20 years of the R Type Jags.
How many farmers are buying the new Defender? This has to be the ultimate test of function or form, and JLR are clearly trying to grab the super-niche market of those who want an expensive toy. Meanwhile the farmers are buying Japanese pick ups.
What Ralf Speth did to JLR was take them from being a very healthy niche market manufacturer with a huge loyal following to being a mass-market player taking on the likes of VW, Audi, BMW for the transient customers. Except he forgot the quality part. All he succeeded in doing was to destroy the loyal customer following and ensure the transient customers go straight back to their previous brand whilst licking their wounds. Previous German brand customers simply wont put up with the issues that LR die-hards are used to.
Sure, there are those with good things to say about JLR and they tend to be salesmen trying to shift the things, or people on the inside of the company itself. Not a vast amount outside of that.

 

[Kayos]

This forum loves to bash land rover. I have no idea why

The same people bemoan all the "made in China rubbish" but can't get behind a British brand

Drive your jap motor, complain we don't make anything in Britain, while using a Chinese made phone

Yes I did go Jap, the thing is going very soon and I cannot wait to jump back in a land rover, I will drive it while I do my job for a proper British manufacturer, one that will be a household name soon

 

[Ubique]

You've obviously got a lot of bile built up around JLR - did they treat you badly?
I'll respond to a couple of points - the rest is purely opinion and hearsay.
'LR Diehards' never bought a new vehicle.
Used vehicles (the 'approved' bit simply means the dealer has supposedly carried out a check against JLR standards) are a sales matter for the dealer, JLR has little interest as it doesn't shift new units.
Rag-top Mercs are bread & butter as far as warranty work is concerned at the dealership I'm working at, 'build' & 'quality' are not two words I'd use next to each other. Also bear in mind about 45% of Mercs are built outside of Germany.
ETA - the 'old' Defender was only 3% of LR output from 2005 onwards, once you subtract the export market, defence sales and utility fleets etc. 'Farmer sales' were inconsequential. Most of them spend their gate subsidies on full-fat Rangies anyway.

 

[Domdom]

Diehards never bought a new vehicle? What planet are you on? Every farmer I have ever known bought defenders (Series vehicles when I was a kid) new as farm trucks and many bought Range Rovers as their own vehicles. If you’re talking about the likes of those who go to the LR show at Peterborough then yes, none of them ever bought a new vehicle of any brand. One of my Range Rovers had previously been the estate manager’s car on a large Scottish estate. All they buy are LR. It was such a great car for me that I went on to buy a new Supercharged Range Rover at nearly 80k, a new XFR for the wife and in 2016 a new Discovery 4 before that nasty D5 arrived to upset everyone.
Used sales absolutely do shift new ones. New sales mostly come with a PX which has to be shifted. JLR may not care but the dealers do and they make a tidy profit by doing so.
As for the Merc, I don’t care where it was built, it’s been golden for 3 years, not a single warranty claim. No squeaks, no rattles, no spun crank bearings (I notice you omitted that little nugget in your summary of the LION engine) and no big yellow taxis.
@Kayos . LR can hardly be described as British. Indian owned with more and more being built overseas. Unless Nissan are also British by virtue of the Washington plant. Nothing really is any more except perhaps Noble and the like, so the British thing isn’t a consideration any more.

Edit. The part about the parts distribution centre is absolutely not hearsay. Ask anyone at IM (developer) or the council (NW Leics) where it was clearly documented in the planning application.

 

[Ubique]

Ah, right - so your Merc hasn't had any problems with NoX sensors, ragtop tension cords, cam followers & camshaft wear, front suspension geometry, the usual water leaks, squeaks, rattles and creaks due to the thin plastics and barely-sprung steel trim clips (same as Audi use) that the repair instruction for is apply liberal amounts of felt tape until quiet? Audio26 software causing the HDD to go into a reboot loop, infotainment display screen cooling issues, low temperature cooling circuit leaking into turbo or intercooler - those sort of problems? lucky you.
The big end bearing shells spinning that I 'didn't mention' because I'd forgot about it was investigated and proved to be due to incorrect oil spec. used at service, (yes, by dealers, mainly) if you have access to Topix, the document is still there in SSM if you care to look.
You still come across as less than objective, whatever the fallout between you & JLR, do you not think it's time to let go?

You put down JLR for building overseas but say you don't care if Mercs are built outside of Germany? time to give your head a wobble fella.

 

[skotl]

D4 or Full Fat Rangie

My mate just bought a 2006 Range Rover Vogue off a farmer. Farmer paid £70k for it 15 years ago, it's done 20,000 miles and is pristine. Mate paid £6k for it...

(course... when the air suspension fails he's gonna pay the same again to have it removed!)

 

[willie.macleod]

My mate just bought a 2006 Range Rover Vogue off a farmer. Farmer paid £70k for it 15 years ago, it's done 20,000 miles and is pristine. Mate paid £6k for it...

(course... when the air suspension fails he's gonna pay the same again to have it removed!)

The entire air suspension system can be replaced many times over for £6k! No need to remove it, just fix the broken bit, which will cost at the most in the low hundreds and be fitted in an hour or two.

 

[Kayos]

Diehards never bought a new vehicle? What planet are you on? Every farmer I have ever known bought defenders (Series vehicles when I was a kid) new as farm trucks and many bought Range Rovers as their own vehicles. If you’re talking about the likes of those who go to the LR show at Peterborough then yes, none of them ever bought a new vehicle of any brand. One of my Range Rovers had previously been the estate manager’s car on a large Scottish estate. All they buy are LR. It was such a great car for me that I went on to buy a new Supercharged Range Rover at nearly 80k, a new XFR for the wife and in 2016 a new Discovery 4 before that nasty D5 arrived to upset everyone.
Used sales absolutely do shift new ones. New sales mostly come with a PX which has to be shifted. JLR may not care but the dealers do and they make a tidy profit by doing so.
As for the Merc, I don’t care where it was built, it’s been golden for 3 years, not a single warranty claim. No squeaks, no rattles, no spun crank bearings (I notice you omitted that little nugget in your summary of the LION engine) and no big yellow taxis.
@Kayos . LR can hardly be described as British. Indian owned with more and more being built overseas. Unless Nissan are also British by virtue of the Washington plant. Nothing really is any more except perhaps Noble and the like, so the British thing isn’t a consideration any more.

Edit. The part about the parts distribution centre is absolutely not hearsay. Ask anyone at IM (developer) or the council (NW Leics) where it was clearly documented in the planning application.

TL;DR

 

[sako243]

(course... when the air suspension fails he's gonna pay the same again to have it removed!)

Why on earth would he do that?!

As @willie.macleod points out its not dear to sort out in the grand scheme of things. My old 2007 TDV8 had a front air bag leak and replaced both of them for £800 all in (OEM parts and labour). They lasted circa 150k miles, I'd replaced the Defender coil based suspension twice in that period.

In order to achieve comfort and "handling" like the L322 on your spending similar money on springs and dampers when you're buying decent brands like OME. Yes there are cheaper alternatives but it's not really the point I'm trying to make. Parts for the more modern Range Rovers aren't that dear especially when you consider the comfort and capability you get out of it.

 

[Blobber]

Our SIL bought a new Defender a few months back, they are visiting for a few days so thought I may get to have a trundle around in 80k worth of motor, Ohh look thats a surprise they have turned up in some fugly Jaguar thing, yep the Defender has gone back with engine problems!!

 

[Nick DV]

I just don't consider anything modern is worthy of my cash.

Agree with that, whether a Landy, a Landcruiser, Isuzu, Rangy, etc, etc