Has van design gone to far?

[Morrisman]

trawling through the Bay looking at mindless stuff i stumbled on this...A radiator for a Renault Trafic 2019-21, Who the hell designed this?? and can you think what it is going to look like in 15 years
View attachment 298237

Someone posted a pic somewhere of a whole V8 engine that looked ten times more complex than that, and I thought was a joke pic. However, turns out it is a real motor and ancillary parts, and that’s how you get 600hp out of 6 litres, at 30mpg, for 100,000 miles or more, with next to no maintenance, with air con, in all conditions from Death valley to Norway.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

If you had proper spanners it would have been easy... 12.7mm in funny money is 1/2" AF on real tools.

That is if the have flats left.
I have been there were moles, stilsons etc are the only way.

 

[Bobupndown]

Built in obsolescence, service life of 5 years, anything more than that is luck. Not like something like an old landrover where you can replace the chassis, engine and gearbox simply and run it for ever.

 

[bricol]

personally I'd have them spendsome time in the workshop repairing, replacing the parts they've put in completely inaccessible places and see if their design stays the same...

just spent nearly an hour changing a limit switch on the bottom of a lawn tractor, (clutch switch) should have been a two minute job, but no, mr idiot designer thought it would be smart to regroup the limit switches all into one place (probably to save a foot of wire)... Damn thing was almost impossible to get too, without taking off the entire central console needed hands the size of a child.... idiots..
do you think the customer will pay an hours labour for changing a switch... idiots...

Mr "idiot" designer would have been working under orders from Design Manager under orders from sales to make it for 4.9p so you would buy it instead of the one costing 5p . . .

Bri (Senior Design Engineer)

 

[MCKDAVID]

Mr "idiot" designer would have been working under orders from Design Manager under orders from sales to make it for 4.9p so you would buy it instead of the one costing 5p . . .

Bri (Senior Design Engineer)

oh believe me, I know the designers constraints so it's nothing personal. Ended up I was Engineering manager responsible for an HVAC design and construction service in the oil and gas industry for way too years before I took redundancy and set up working for myself, so know exactly what you mean. Had many happy hours designing systems worth millions only to end up arguing the point with management, clients and procurement over hundreds... most difficulty was usually with the procurement team buyers..

all that is all well and good, but sometimes we make excuses for just down right shoddy design... I looked at the way this was installed, and it would have taken nothing more than a foot of wire to install it in somewhere that would have taken literally minutes to change. Everything else being equal, ok they would have the cost of the foot of wire, but they would have been able to reduce the quantity of steel rod / and gained one bearing underneath by shortening one link which went full width, so would have saved there too.... but we don't know all the other design constraints, so we'll leave it at that, but I'm sure your right, on paper they probably saved that 0.1p so management would be happy.

Dave (Ex Eng Manager.... now self employed daft erse repair workshop owner with skinned knuckles)

 

[Red'n'Black]

Lets over complicate everything.

Electric handbrakes. My pet rant..

Why ?

This, a thousand times this. Had one car with it, horrible things. Never again.

 

[sako243]

Build simplicity - rather than trying to route a huge cable and handle somewhere into the cab you can replace it with a switch.

I'm not providing an excuse but also modern people are morons so having the ability to automatically put on the handbrake under control of a computer is desirable in some senses.

 

[mike os]

This, a thousand times this. Had one car with it, horrible things. Never again.

love them personally

 

[bigegg]

My old lexus had a foot-press for the "parking brake", with a pull switch/lever to release it.
Much better than a "handbrake", without the complications of the electronic gubbins.

 

[dobbslc]

The stupid Renault Kangoo handbrake is fitted across the van left to right! Dumb **** idea as you have to twist your wrist to operate it
Stupid Renault kangoo drivers door pocket that you can't get your hand in without opening the door
Stupid Renault Kangoo gearbox that's missing at least 1 gear going by the engine speed at 70mph on the motorway
I could go on but it's rose` time so I'll leave a few more of these for you all.

 

[DanZac]

The stupid Renault Kangoo handbrake is fitted across the van left to right! Dumb **** idea as you have to twist your wrist to operate it

Think it's the Citroën relay that's got the handbrake on the right, beside the drivers seat.

Seen loads of them bent like a banana as people seem to think it makes a great handle for pulling yourself up into the cab with.

Stupid Renault kangoo drivers door pocket that you can't get your hand in without opening the door

The door pockets on the Mondeo are the same, they go back so far that the first time you accelerate whatever in there is gone for good.

And as for the cubby hole in the middle with no sides. Well, what's the point in that, unless you have some fetish for picking things up from the footwells!

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I'd have them spendsome time in the workshop repairing, replacing the parts they've put in completely inaccessible places and see if their design stays the same...

All down to cost-driven unitary construction. Build the jigsaw of modules, each dropped on top of another with a different function. But yes, make them fix it before production runs - like that's going to happen... . "The customer'll pay", innit

 

[bricol]

My old lexus had a foot-press for the "parking brake", with a pull switch/lever to release it.
Much better than a "handbrake", without the complications of the electronic gubbins.

My Dodge has got one of them - and it means the subtle art of initiating a quick turn, or the option of aiding the steering in low grip conditions with the rear wheel steering stick has been lost . . .

Used to be a bit of tape over the button for a fly-off lever, and autotest here we come . . .

 

[bricol]

The stupid Renault Kangoo handbrake is fitted across the van left to right! Dumb **** idea as you have to twist your wrist to operate it
Stupid Renault kangoo drivers door pocket that you can't get your hand in without opening the door
Stupid Renault Kangoo gearbox that's missing at least 1 gear going by the engine speed at 70mph on the motorway
I could go on but it's rose` time so I'll leave a few more of these for you all.

Lotus/Caterham sevens used to have the same sideways handbrake lever - under the passenger side of the dash - you couldn't reach it with the seat harness on . . .

 

[Chillitt]

There must be something up, given the number of dead vivaros there are for sale..

 

[dobbslc]

^ Vauxhall ^

 

[Chillitt]

^ Vauxhall ^

Nissan.. Renault...

 

[dobbslc]

Need I say more.

 

[roofman]

If you had proper spanners it would have been easy... 12.7mm in funny money is 1/2" AF on real tools.

If i had room for spanners i would not of mentioned it in my post as they would of been off

 

[m_c]

There must be something up, given the number of dead vivaros there are for sale..

Newer 1.6 ones are rubbish. I've seen 3 year old ones scrapped, as the cost of anything major puts them over the typical 50% of value repair limit.
Costs over £5k to put a reconditioned engine in one, so any valued under £10k just get dragged to auction.

Commercially, repairing the engine isn't worth it.
17hr job to remove and refit a cylinder head, before you consider any other damage.
Leasing companies will take the view that if they have to pay 8hrs for a definitive diagnosis, and then still potentially pay another 11 to fit a new engine, they'll cut their losses (or bill the leaser for misuse if the data log shows it's been driven with various warning lights showing for several miles before melting).

Turbos regularly fail, and have been modified a few times.
Cooling system likes to spring leaks.
Hit anything with the front bumper, and it'll likely snap the radiator where the intercooler mounts, and push the intercooler pipe back so it rubs through on the alternator pulley.

I suspect Renault just took the engine from the car line where it was reasonably reliable, dumped it in a heavy van, and thought it would be just as reliable.
And I think Renault took the cheapest option they thought they could get away with on most components, given how many parts fail just outside warranty.

The older Trafic/Vivaro was pretty reliable, other than door handles, track rod ends, ball joints, and an occasional injector.