Tungsten cleaning question

[Misterg]

I'm still messing around practicing on thin aluminium. My tungsten end up looking like this quite often:

Is it sufficient to re-grind the tip to give something like the (blurry, sorry) photo below?

If I need to remove it all, is it worth trying to grind it off, or is it a case of cutting the tungsten above any discolouration and re-grinding? It undoubtedly looks better that way, but I'd go through tungstens very quickly!

Advice appreciated.

 

[Shox Dr]

All the contamination MUST be removed. Best off cutting back and regrinding.

 

[Munkul]

Depends how fussy you are, and how likely you are to dip straight away again you can get away with just cleaning the end, and grinding the rough off further up, as the arc will eventually burn off the aluminium if its not on the tip. It's not "right" but you can get away with it if the contamination is light.
You can't get away with aluminium on or next to the tungsten tip, though.

 

[Shox Dr]

Depends how fussy you are, and how likely you are to dip straight away again you can get away with just cleaning the end, and grinding the rough off further up, as the arc will eventually burn off the aluminium if its not on the tip. It's not "right" but you can get away with it.

Leaving contamination on the tungsten causes the arc to wander, bits come off and end up in the weld pool further adding to the woe. Isn't too much trouble to work around once you have a grasp of it, but often too much for a learner to cope with. Not to mention bad practice, better to learn the correct way from the outset, stops bad habits becoming engrained.

 

[Misterg]

... and how likely you are to dip straight away again

Very, very likely!

Not too fussy (it's only hobby stuff for my own entertainment) but would like to get as much going in my favour as possible.

I think I'm starting to notice more subtle differences in the way the arc behaves - even if it isn't wandering like a Catherine wheel (due to dipping), it is still sometimes more stable and focussed than others.

Thanks for the comments all.

I guess I'm going to get through more tungsten!

 

[Paul.]

For AC I would grind a more shallow point on the electrode, you want it to form a half ball, so run it on a piece of scrap to help it form before moving on to the job, also for Aluminium don't extend the electrode very far, (if at all) outside the ceramic, this will lessen the chances of touching down or touching the filler on the electrode.

 

[Barking Mat]

All good advice, keep it coming.

@Paul. Don't you then end up with a long arc?

 

[Popcorn]

What about the balance/cleaning action, I know if I turn it up to high the alloy seems to jump on the tungsten from the wok piece.

 

[Radar 3]

Using a Gas Lens would help. Stupid question but are you using a Zirconiated Tungstan.

 

[Misterg]

Thanks very much for the advice.

for Aluminium don't extend the electrode very far, (if at all) outside the ceramic

My current spate of dipping is from trying to weld some small diameter 'stabbings' - something like this (practice piece - 8mm tube was sawn off after welding):

I think I'm getting the best welds by trying to keep a *really* short arc, right down into the joint and stepping on the amps. Sometimes the metal flow catches me out and zaps the tungsten though. I'm using a #5 gas lens (the smallest I've got) and need have the tungsten sticking out to get the arc down into the corner. I may be wrong, but I felt it was easier to do this with a 1/16" tungsten with a sharp point, but it may be that my 2.4mm tungstens just weren't clean enough (the arc seemed to want to jump from the side of the electrode to one side of the joint) - They're all 2% lanthanated, btw and I'm using 35% electrode positive for cleaning.

I have been firing it up on (edit: aluminium) scrap after grinding - it burns a little off the tip, but it doesn't form a ball (somewhere, I'd picked up that this was normal for lanthanated electrodes, so have regarded it as 'normal'.

I'm sure it's a technique thing (and probably not the easiest thing to do anyway) - I often end up dipping or smacking the electrode with the filler a couple of times in a row - either I'm in a poor position, I'm rushing, or the improvised fixturing is a bit shaky (I need to adjust position about 8 times to weld around the tube, and the temptation is to balance stuff in the right place) - but I'm practicing and learning a lot.

I absolutely love the process.

 

[Radar 3]

Once again I would suggest a Gas Lens and Zirconiated Tungstan .What type of tig torch are you using so I can help you with the comsumables that would help. This ,to me ,would be a good starting point.

 

[Misterg]

Once again I would suggest a Gas Lens and Zirconiated Tungstan .What type of tig torch are you using so I can help you with the comsumables that would help. This ,to me ,would be a good starting point.

Thanks - My original question was just about how much to clean the Tungsten. I'm not sure whether this is still the topic of discussion or if we're now talking about something else - what problem will changing the consumables address? (Sorry, not a dig - I'm just not sure where the discussion has gone - my fault ).

I'm using the Kennedy 17 torch from Zoro (link) with #5 gas lens from WCS (link) on a Sherman 206P with 2% lanthanated tungstens branded 'Super 6' and am (within the bounds of my very limited experience) very happy with the setup.

I'm at the stage of 'unconscious incompetence' - I don't know what I don't know! so grateful for any pointers to improve.

(ETA: Also pure argon at ~7 LPM. It was set at 6 with a peashooter, but has crept up as the cylinder pressure has dropped.)

 

[Radar 3]

Thanks - My original question was just about how much to clean the Tungsten. I'm not sure whether this is still the topic of discussion or if we're now talking about something else - what problem will changing the consumables address? (Sorry, not a dig - I'm just not sure where the discussion has gone - my fault ).

I'm using the Kennedy 17 torch from Zoro (link) with #5 gas lens from WCS (link) on a Sherman 206P with 2% lanthanated tungstens branded 'Super 6' and am (within the bounds of my very limited experience) very happy with the setup.

I'm at the stage of 'unconscious incompetence' - I don't know what I don't know! so grateful for any pointers to improve.

(ETA: Also pure argon at ~7 LPM. It was set at 6 with a peashooter, but has crept up as the cylinder pressure has dropped.)

It`s not your fault at all.All I am trying to do is get to the root of the problem.

 

[Shox Dr]

Thanks very much for the advice.



My current spate of dipping is from trying to weld some small diameter 'stabbings' - something like this (practice piece - 8mm tube was sawn off after welding):

I'm sure it's a technique thing (and probably not the easiest thing to do anyway) - I often end up dipping or smacking the electrode with the filler a couple of times in a row - either I'm in a poor position, I'm rushing, or the improvised fixturing is a bit shaky (I need to adjust position about 8 times to weld around the tube, and the temptation is to balance stuff in the right place) - but I'm practicing and learning a lot.

I absolutely love the process.

Its essential you get comfortable, and be able to smoothly move the torch without been impeded. Do what you can then reposition.
Its hard enough learn to TIG without having issues that are very easy to fix.

 

[Misterg]

Its essential you get comfortable, and be able to smoothly move the torch without been impeded.

Yeah - this is something I'm really starting to appreciate!

Thanks again.

 

[Turbo]

I may be wrong, but I felt it was easier to do this with a 1/16" tungsten with a sharp point, but it may be that my 2.4mm tungstens just weren't clean enough

I've very limited experience in welding ally but you normally use quite a lot of amps for it, would that not be too much for a 1.6 tungsten, only good for up to 120 amps? I should think a 2.4 or 3.2 with correct tip grinding would be more suitable.

 

[Munkul]

What AC frequency are you using? If it's low, then the arc may wander more.

IME a gas lens doesn't make a shade of difference on aluminium, in fact sometimes you can wreck them really quickly if the alloy is spitting. All you need is "enough" gasflow.

I'd still use a 2.4 tungsten (I use em for nearly everything). Gold lanthanated does funny things to the point on AC - blue is better. I sharpen them to a point, same as for DC, and then grind back the very tip - so it rounds naturally. If it doesn't round, it will do funny things like grow nodules.

As Shox_dr says, you have to be comfortable to weld - no point hovering your unsupported wrist in mid air, it;s only going to shake you need to prop somehow - whether it's with a bit of wood under your wrist, or whether you can rest the cup on the work - you have to be stable.

I agree with your original intention - to keep the arc length short and to have enough stickout to see what you're doing. Just beware when you add filler, it ripples into the weld pool and a wave of metal rides straight at the tungsten

 

[Misterg]

would that not be too much for a 1.6 tungsten, only good for up to 120 amps?

This was only thin stuff: 1mm wall tube to 1.6mm wall, so was <100 amps (I had the machine set to 75A, but backed off a lot once I got a pool going.

Just beware when you add filler, it ripples into the weld pool and a wave of metal rides straight at the tungsten

Oh yes.... !

I was using 80Hz, btw. Light blue tungstens. I've wondered since whether a higher frequency may have been useful.

When you say "sharpen them to a point", do you mean a blunt shallow one like in @Paul. 's post, or sharper? I've been sharpening the 2.4s at ~45 degrees (so not as sharp as the photos in my first post) and then knocking the tip off and they do form a nice, shiny dome on the end like this:

Thanks all.

 

[Munkul]

This was only thin stuff: 1mm wall tube to 1.6mm wall, so was <100 amps (I had the machine set to 75A, but backed off a lot once I got a pool going.



Oh yes.... !

I was using 80Hz, btw. Light blue tungstens. I've wondered since whether a higher frequency may have been useful.

When you say "sharpen them to a point", do you mean a blunt one like in @Paul. 's post, or sharper? I've been sharpening the 2.4s at ~45 degrees (so not as sharp as the photos in my first post) and then knocking the tip off and they do form a nice, shiny dome on the end like this:

View attachment 279369

Thanks all.

If that's a 2.4, then yes that's exactly how I sharpen them, and the rounding looks wobbly but acceptable. It could be slightly pointier and a smaller dome, but that will get the job done. 80hz is fine too, no need to up it, maybe actually worth experimenting dropping to 60hz to see what effect it has on stability.

It may well be as shox dr said at the start - the contamination is causing most of your arc wandering issues

 

[Misterg]

If that's a 2.4, then yes that's exactly how I sharpen them

Yes, it's a 2.4 (and most of what I'm doing I've copied from here somewhere!). That one has seen ~160 amps (for a few minutes).

It seems it'll be worth my while to pay a lot more attention to getting rid of all the contamination on the tungstens in future.

Thanks again.