My anvil project

[pressbrake1]

I didn't say anything about using mild steel, although a mild steel with a higher carbon steel top work fine as an anvil. I make hammers for a living so i've half an idea what i'm talking about.

Means nothing to me, you’re not a engineer or metallurgical expert.

 

[Shox Dr]

Its all kicking off today.

 

[Parm]

Its all kicking off today.

your sheep has come off the post

 

[ryan2020]

my 4 year old has made 2 hammers so far, they work, he too is quick to offer advice, and sometimes im dumb enough to take it

 

[brightspark]

I know you can find evidence of people getting injured by hammer faces chipping but then many people have been injured by shards coming off the top of cold chisels and you don't get anyone warning you not to hit a chisel with a hammer.

the material on a cold chisel stem is soft and thats why it mushrooms over was always taught at college to knock the split mushrooms off and grind the rough bits off because there lies the danger if u dont.one of my bolster chisels is 40 years old and the handle is worn that far down it has halved might weld a new one on to it to give it extra life

 

[Parm]

the material on a cold chisel stem is soft and thats why it mushrooms over was always taught at college to knock the split mushrooms off and grind the rough bits off because there lies the danger if u dont.one of my bolster chisels is 40 years old and the handle is worn that far down it has halved

isn't that why they put a chamfer on the striking edge to prevent chips and to encourage mushrooming of the head ?

 

[Shox Dr]

your sheep has come off the post

Barrrrmey.

Means nothing to me, you’re not a engineer or metallurgical expert.

Why so hostile. You’re waving your creds about with no proof yet poo hooing His. He makes Hammers FFS.

 

[brightspark]

isn't that why they put a chamfer on the striking edge to prevent chips and to encourage mushrooming of the head ?

yes then knock them off when they mushroom and start to split before they fly off

 

[pressbrake1]

Barrrrmey.


Why so hostile. You’re waving your creds about with no proof yet poo hooing His. He makes Hammers FFS.

He’s told me therefore the experts I’ve consulted are wrong.
Proof of credentials is easy to find

 

[Screwdriver]

I think it's amazing that @pressbrake1 has made an anvil! And it's an amazing anvil.

All anvils have a hardened carbon steel face, typically a flat plate forge welded onto the softer cast body prior to heat treat. Casting the whole anvil from high carbon tool steel means you don't have to go to the trouble of forge welding a hard face and (I assume) it makes the heat treat a lot easier to judge to perfection.

The addition of an upsetting block really makes this anvil a fantastically useful tool and is another benefit for having the whole thing cast in toolsteel. I dread to think how you would go about hardfacing a classic upsetting block on a regular forge welded anvil.

As for whether or not you should hit the hard face of an anvil with a hard faced hammer; NO! Of course you shouldn't. That is true for any anvil. You're only supposed to hit the workpiece and even then, it is frowned on to cold work on a hard face. The workpiece should be nice and hot anyway.

 

[Wozzaaah]

Come on chaps, there's always going to be differences of opinions on forums, there's no need for any hostility.
Try and be nice to each other please.

 

[roblane65]

What is an upsetting block ? please excuse the ignorance

 

[Pete.]

the material on a cold chisel stem is soft and thats why it mushrooms over was always taught at college to knock the split mushrooms off and grind the rough bits off because there lies the danger if u dont.one of my bolster chisels is 40 years old and the handle is worn that far down it has halved might weld a new one on to it to give it extra life

Actually the mushroomed top of a chisel is somewhat harder than when the chisel is made as you can see from the crystallined structure because it's work hardened, but the point I'm making is that you hit anything, hard, medium or soft, then sharp bits can fly off.

I've got through-hardened centre punches that do not have a blemish on the top despite years of being hammered on. If the hammer face explodes upon impact, the temper is wrong.

 

[brightspark]

not explode but i have seen shards of the edge of a hammer face that have flown off by a clown hitting 2 hammers together as for chisels i never let them get anywhere near mushrooming over before i grind the edges clean .

 

[Screwdriver]

What is an upsetting block ? please excuse the ignorance

Sometimes you want to make the end of a bit of steel a bit thicker, say before you form a feature or it's just not quite thick enough. You can also thicken up the middle of a bar and thicken that before forming a bend. Then you heat the end up and hammer it from the other end or drop it onto an anvil which deliberately mushrooms the hot end.

Thing is, your anvil is already at the "correct" working height for you to hit it on the surface with a hammer (or using it's own mass). So a lower block is much more handy. An upsetting block is a fair bit lower than the face of the anvil so you can either hit the opposite end of the workpiece or literally drop it down onto the face of the block.

Here's a vid:

 

[TechnicAl]

Many years ago I was asked if I could advise on the refurbishment of quite a lot of anvils used by a college in Hereford (or Herefordshire). They had been used to the point where the surface was no longer flat. We had a look and they were originally made from a medium carbon steel with small additions of Cr, Mo and V....probably enough to be intentional (rather than tramp elements)....I suspected that the surface had been hardenend probably by carbo-nitriding. We eventually decided to build them up using 7018 rods and then overlaid that with a martenisitic 650 Hv hardfacing rod but only 2 layers so the hardness was about 450Hv (they only get to 650 after 3 layers).....I know they were in use for a number of years but I lost contact and dont know what happened long term....plus the guys using them were "learners".
I assume different makes use different methods....These were for a college so I also assume they werent the most expensive.....however, I would think it unlikely that anyone would weld a plate on top or make an anvil out of cast iron (surely its too brittle).

 

[Screwdriver]

The plate is typically forge welded. Both the body (which is often cast iron) and the carbon steel plate are heated to forge welding temperature and hammered together. This in itself is a very difficult and expensive process. It used to still be cheaper to go through that process than going all toolsteel or all carbon steel.

This is a very common form of anvil making. In fact, it is unusual to find an anvil which has not been made this way. Typically the all toolsteel cast anvils are right at the premium end of the market.

 

[Pete.]

not explode but i have seen shards of the edge of a hammer face that have flown off by a clown hitting 2 hammers together as for chisels i never let them get anywhere near mushrooming over before i grind the edges clean .

Which is only sensible unless you like pulling bits of metal out of your arm.

I could see something like a planishing hammer perhaps being hard enough to shatter the face, but not a smithing one.

 

[pressbrake1]

Modern cast anvils tend to be A2 or there abouts
Massey power hammers use low grade steel with a s7 insert for the die blocks
Peddinghaus are forged with induction hardened top . One I had tested was very similar to en24 but had some A2 percentages

 

[pressbrake1]

Did anyone see the mythbusters episode of hitting two hammers together