Plumbing question

[Porschemaniac]

My better half has decided that we need a heated towel rail in the bathroom. Despite my insistence that this would be no problem for me to do, she sees plumbing as some sort of dark art and has, therefore, commissioned a local plumbing firm to do the work.

Well, in fact, she has now commissioned two local firm - the first one missed their first appointment (to provide a quote) by exactly one week. Three weeks later (after we phoned them) they finally provided the quote and which we duly agreed to proceed with. Three weeks further on, they phoned us (two days before they were due to fit said radiator) to say that the part would not be in on time so they wouldn't be fitting as agreed!! After a very blunt call from me to their boss, it turns out that the issue was more around manpower than availability of parts, so I told them to return my deposit - I would do the job myself.

Of course, the missus still wasn't happy with that proposal, so she sought a quote from another local plumbing firm. Now, these guys did make their appointment to provide a quote and rang back the same day to quote us - all looking good - job booked.

They were due to fit yesterday and we had arranged for them to be on site at 09:30. Well, their 'engineer' arrived at 12:45. He then removed the old rad and replaced four tiles before announcing that he needed to go out and get the rad valves. Given that out local Screwfix is a ten minute drive away, I am surprised that it actually took him a further two hours to return. Then, at 15:45, he announced to my wife that it was, "getting a bit late" and duly f***ed off.

Of course, he wasn't using the time to fit in his own little PJs, was he!!! Anyway, I got on the phone to his boss and duly blew my top. He agreed that it's not acceptable - but won't do anything about it, "I'll speak to him" was his best response.

They say there's a recession on - but - based on my experience - that surely can't be the case for the plumbing trade. I'm now at the end of my tether - I have to take (another) day off of work to accommodate their incompetence / work shy staff!!!

So, this weekend, I really think I'll do the job myself.

Sorry for the rant but (getting to the question here) our system is a sealed combi boiler system. I'm pretty comfortable with draining this - turn off boiler, turn off all power and gas to the boiler, attach hose to the drain point in the hall, open the drain tap and drain externally. I just wonder if there is anything that I may have missed with that.

Also, refilling shouldn't bee too hard - all drains and bleed valves closed, fill via filling loop, get pressure up to about 1.5 Bar, bleed rads - repeat until all the air is out and the system maintaining 1.5 Bar. But, again, would be grateful for any words of wisdom that may save me from disaster.

Sorry for the rant - and sorry if you're a plumber - I'm sure there are good ones out there (just not in our area, it would appear).

Cheers,

Ian.

 

[Tigman]

Dont forget to put inhibitor back in the system , should have it in ! keeps the system clean . Apart from that your ideas sound ok , towel rails are ok in the winter on your system but what about the summer ? you could fit an electrical element in the rail for use in the summer , dry towels all year round lovely !

 

[Paul.]

If you can get at the pipes below the rad valves, just freeze them, for a one of job one of these will do it, I hardly ever drain systems to do simple jobs like that.

 

[rtbcomp]

........ he needed to go out and get the rad valves. ......

Ian.

He knew what the job in hand was so why didn't he have the parts on the van?

 

[msh10]

Just turn all the valves off on the other rads and drain the system, Much quicker as you are only emptying the pipes and not the rads.

 

[Porschemaniac]

He knew what the job in hand was so why didn't he have the parts on the van?

My thoughts exactly! It's funny, but my wife rang at 10:30 to see where he was and was told, "he's just picking up the radiator valves". So, it took him two and a quarter hours from then to find his way to us and then he still hadn't got the parts!

In my opinion, he never had any intention of completing the job - his opening gambit, when my wife opened the door to him was, "this is going to be a dodgy one". Not being funny, but if fitting a towel rail is a dodgy job for him, he needs a change of career!

Tigman, thanks for the reply, also. Yes, planning to add Fernox into a rad upstairs (possibly, straight into the new towel rail). Very good point about the heating element, also.

Paul, thanks for the reply also. Just one thought; will freezing the pipes be OK if I'm soldering on to them? I have to move one pipe about four inches and then bring both out from the wall by about half an inch, or so.

Thanks again,

Ian.

 

[kingkenny]

also fit lock shield valves on both sides of the towel rail,this will help to balance the system

 

[Paul.]

will freezing the pipes be OK if I'm soldering on to them? I have to move one pipe about four inches and then bring both out from the wall by about half an inch, or so.

Ian.

If you can freeze about 6" away from the joint it should be ok. although if soldering, any water in the joint will give problems, I use a pro freezing kit so if the plug starts to melt it justs gets a blast of gas to keep it frozen, much of my plumbing work is in a food factory environment on stainless pipe some of it with tig welded joints, as an alternative to soldering why not use compression fittings, or push fit, these will work even if the pipes are wet

 

[Porschemaniac]

If you can freeze about 6" away from the joint it should be ok. although if soldering, any water in the joint will give problems, I use a pro freezing kit so if the plug starts to melt it justs gets a blast of gas to keep it frozen, much of my plumbing work is in a food factory environment on stainless pipe some of it with tig welded joints, as an alternative to soldering why not use compression fittings, or push fit, these will work even if the pipes are wet

Thanks again Paul. I did consider using compression - are these OK for joints in heating systems?

Kenny - thanks for the tip. Just out of curiosity, how does that help the balance? I guess because the flow rate will be exactly the same through both valves?

 

[kingkenny]

it has always been standard practice to use the towel rail as a balance rad,also put your fernox in via the vent on top of towel rail,you could use hep2o fittings,but you must use a pipe slice to cut the tube as not to damage the O ring inside the fitting,they are not to pricey nowa days,cheaper than compression fittings or tectite,equally as good.

 

[Arsonista]

Fit an oil filled electric one. You could have fitted it in the time it took to type that rant.

 

[Paul.]

Compression fittings will be fine, ideal for the diyer who may not be used to soldering, and much safer too, not having to use a blowlamp, if they are on show you can use chrome plated ones, you can get chromed pipe as well.
I would recommend buying a pipe cutter to make nice square cuts , a cheap one will do as its a one off job, like this one.

 

[gordon stephenson]

It used to be standard practice to if poss plumb the bathroom rad/towel rail into the domestic hot water system so that you had heated bathroom regardless of the heating system being on or not.

 

[kingkenny]

It used to be standard practice to if poss plumb the bathroom rad/towel rail into the domestic hot water system so that you had heated bathroom regardless of the heating system being on or not.

quite correct on that gordon,but with the use of combi boilers nowa days,that went out of the window.

 

[Porschemaniac]

Once again, thanks for all the replies. Really appreciate all the advice.

Arsonista - yep; probably could have. But it's so good to vent your spleen once in a while!

 

[Robotstar5]

I had to meet a "plumber" at my mom's to sort out a leak in the airing cupboard, I'd turned off the water but he was worried about the header tank draining via the fill valve!! then he said he'd not seen a system like this although I could see what all the pipes did and I'm an electrician. I asked him if he really was a plumber and told him to leave, he still asked for the £60 call-out fee so I showed him the door.
A real plumber, friend of the wife came the next day and sorted the leak for £20.

 

[BillJ]

Fit an oil filled electric one.

But whether or not you are worried about wiring regs or "Part P" of the building regs (where the bathroom is a "special location"), I would at the very least wire it through an RCD (if the wiring to the heater isn't already protected by one at the consumer unit). Cheap insurance.

Regarding compression joints, they are indeed suitable for heating systems, as are push-fit joints. Just look at how your pump and diverter valve are fitted to the pipes. My own heating system has solder joints where they are visible and push fit where they are not (bungalow with concrete floors so all the heating goes via plastic pipes in the loft). The exceptions are valves and pumps, which come with compression fittings, and the towel rail in the bathroom, which is fed via chrome-plated pipes and would look a right mess if I'd soldered the 90 degree elbows on the pipes coming out of the wall.

 

[gordon stephenson]

Hi, Kingkenny,
Just showing my age again with out-dated suggestions!

 

[brightspark]

Hi, Kingkenny,
Just showing my age again with out-dated suggestions!

not entirely wrong gordon trv .s are fitted to all radiators on new boilers now. y plan with condensing boilers . combis sealed systems but one still has to be open for the pump flow to clear the boiler of heat when all trv ,s are closed so the towel rail is a favourite to use

 

[bush]

Shame you're so far away, I'd fit a towel rad. for £65 plus parts (no deposit), turn up on time and have the bits with me! I'd freeze and use compression fittings (after asking you if your pipes are 8, 10 or 15mm). Easy 2.5 hrs even with the pipe move. Ask a generalist not a specialist with people who work for them. I get a lot of work because 'the person who quotes does the job'.