Another maths question...

[Maker]

Why can't both the tanks be mounted on a big rotisserie, no pumps needed just rotate so the full tank rotates to the top and gravity empties. Sod the pumps.

Bob

Because that would be mental?

 

[8ob]

Because that would be mental?

My forklift will pick up a 1000ltr stillage to a height of 3mts in about 4 seconds. To pump a 1000ltrs to that height would take considerably longer and use a lot more energy Just find a sensible way of rotating/lifting tanks and let gravity do the rest

Bob

 

[hotponyshoes]

Use the trained horse to power a pump connected to a dry treadmill.

@barking mat: Pumped storage power stations: Cruachan, near Oban, and Dinorweg, near Snowdon. Both have excellent visitor centres and do tours.

The idea is people turn up and pay to use it.
It would be ideal if a paying horse on one treadmill could be using the power output to pump out another tank then once its shifted 4 ton with its little legs take the money and send them home!

I could record how quickly it does it and sell them a dyno graph printout as well then!
I would not even need to measure anything, they would all get a copy of the same 1hp sheet.

 

[hotponyshoes]

My forklift will pick up a 1000ltr stillage to a height of 3mts in about 4 seconds. To pump a 1000ltrs to that height would take considerably longer and use a lot more energy Just find a sensible way of rotating/lifting tanks and let gravity do the rest

Bob

That might be a workable idea, some way of raising/lowering the storage tank(s) and no pumping.
But then I still need some sort of lift plus the space to store the tanks and if they raise/lower I will need 3x as much space to locate them.

 

[Screwdriver]

Sadly there is no such thing as a free lunch and the amount of energy required to move water whether by pump or by rotisserie will be exactly the same. Interestingly the very term "energy" was literally defined by the mechanical effort required to shift water from one place to a higher spot.

I love stuff like this because it allows me to "overcomplicate" matters and shatter our comfortable day to day illusion of "normality". How much does a ton of water weigh in space? Answer: nothing. Nothing at all..

 

[hotponyshoes]

Sadly there is no such thing as a free lunch and the amount of energy required to move water whether by pump or by rotisserie will be exactly the same. Interestingly the very term "energy" was literally defined by the mechanical effort required to shift water from one place to a higher spot.

I love stuff like this because it allows me to "overcomplicate" matters and shatter our comfortable day to day illusion of "normality". How much does a ton of water weigh in space? Answer: nothing. Nothing at all..

I know it's going to cost to pump it.
Question is, does it cost the same to pump it sideways twice as pump it up once?

 

[Mr Fro]

Why does the water need to be heated?

Do you really need more than 1 tank? Pumping water up 1.2m is pumping water up 1.2m, you could just have an open vertical pipe that allows the water to immediately drain back to the original tank.

 

[AdW]

Presumably the water is going to need replacing often as it becomes contaminated with horse hair, bedding, sweat, oils, grass, crap and well, other crap. I guess you'll have to filter the water to try and keep this out of tanks and to stop it settling over night, so you might need pumps anyway for that purpose. Presumably the tanks will also need regular cleaning to keep them sterile enough and stop microbial growth on the horse soup/bathwater, especially if heating it, so you may want to factor that in to any consideration of re-use of the water and where to place the tanks as below ground access could be difficult.

 

[Screwdriver]

I know it's going to cost to pump it.
Question is, does it cost the same to pump it sideways twice as pump it up once?

Well that's a new question but the answer is as above. It literally depends on the height difference in terms of total energy cost remembering that even pumping from one tank sideways to another will change the height of the respective bodies of water. Two IBC tanks plonked on the same level surface still requires you to "lift" one ton of water, offset by the "emptying" tank getting a bit of free gravity assist for the first half of the move MINUS the extra effort required to "lift" the level of water above the "half height" once the tanks are "balanced".

(there will be "losses" in any powered system and those potential losses may be the real issue you need to solve, above and beyond the fixed costs and additional complexity of whichever system you go for. Simplest is best imho.)

 

[daleyd]

Given the cost of heating the water and all the other associated stuff I’d say the cost of pumping the water around, no matter which method you use, will be miniscule in comparison.

I’d agree the simplest solution would be the best, also taking into account the need to clean/remove/refresh the water periodically. Moving tanks etc sound great, but you would need to consider things like rotating unions, flexible couplings etc - additional complications that could end up expensive.

 

[Morrisman]

Sadly there is no such thing as a free lunch and the amount of energy required to move water whether by pump or by rotisserie will be exactly the same. Interestingly the very term "energy" was literally defined by the mechanical effort required to shift water from one place to a higher spot.

I love stuff like this because it allows me to "overcomplicate" matters and shatter our comfortable day to day illusion of "normality". How much does a ton of water weigh in space? Answer: nothing. Nothing at all..

Isn’t a horsepower the measure of how much time it takes for one horse to lift a certain weight a certain distance?

I see an idea developing, a horse powered horse power developer: a horse treadmill.

 

[cheb]

The idea is people turn up and pay to use it.
It would be ideal if a paying horse on one treadmill could be using the power output to pump out another tank then once its shifted 4 ton with its little legs take the money and send them home!

I could record how quickly it does it and sell them a dyno graph printout as well then!
I would not even need to measure anything, they would all get a copy of the same 1hp sheet.

You could offer them tuning upgrades, you know decokes, rebores, grippier horseshoes, that sort of thing. The list is endless.

Seriously, is this just to exercise the horses, or are there theraputics involved?

 

[daleyd]

You could offer them tuning upgrades, you know decokes, rebores, grippier horseshoes, that sort of thing. The list is endless.

Seriously, is this just to exercise the horses, or are there theraputics involved?

How do you rebore a horse (please don’t answer that, I don’t think I want to know...)

 

[8ob]

Sadly there is no such thing as a free lunch and the amount of energy required to move water whether by pump or by rotisserie will be exactly the same. Interestingly the very term "energy" was literally defined by the mechanical effort required to shift water from one place to a higher spot.

I love stuff like this because it allows me to "overcomplicate" matters and shatter our comfortable day to day illusion of "normality". How much does a ton of water weigh in space? Answer: nothing. Nothing at all..

May be no free lunch but lifting one ton would use a fraction of the energy of pumping it, pumping losses are horrendous.

Bob

 

[jsf55]

My forklift will pick up a 1000ltr stillage to a height of 3mts in about 4 seconds. To pump a 1000ltrs to that height would take considerably longer and use a lot more energy Just find a sensible way of rotating/lifting tanks and let gravity do the rest

Bob

 

[Munkul]

I laughed at the thought of grippier horseshoe tuning upgrades

 

[Screwdriver]

May be no free lunch but lifting one ton would use a fraction of the energy of pumping it, pumping losses are horrendous.

Bob

Agree entirely and as I think I suggested earlier, those losses in whichever system the OP goes for are probably the only place to look for advantages.

 

[bricol]

Sadly there is no such thing as a free lunch and the amount of energy required to move water whether by pump or by rotisserie will be exactly the same. Interestingly the very term "energy" was literally defined by the mechanical effort required to shift water from one place to a higher spot.

I love stuff like this because it allows me to "overcomplicate" matters and shatter our comfortable day to day illusion of "normality". How much does a ton of water weigh in space? Answer: nothing. Nothing at all..

Still has a mass of one ton wherever it is . . . just on the earth its weight would be 980N ish . . . some of us are waiting for our super duper IT and quality depts to force a change to our drawings to add weights . . . and they are going to be very surprised at the actual numbers I think . . .

 

[armalites]

To me it would make more sense to mount the treadmill in some sort of cage and sink the tank into the ground. You could then lower the cage with treadmill and horse into the water. You could have 3 separate tanks at different temperatures, solar hot water panels on the roof to warm them. You could have a set of rails over the sides of the tanks

 

[bricol]

Presumably the water is going to need replacing often as it becomes contaminated with horse hair, bedding, sweat, oils, grass, crap and well, other crap. I guess you'll have to filter the water to try and keep this out of tanks and to stop it settling over night, so you might need pumps anyway for that purpose. Presumably the tanks will also need regular cleaning to keep them sterile enough and stop microbial growth on the horse soup/bathwater, especially if heating it, so you may want to factor that in to any consideration of re-use of the water and where to place the tanks as below ground access could be difficult.

Never mind legionaires if its sat around at just the right temp . . .

Maybe a lifting platform to lower the horse/raise the tank around the horse. Or just slope one end into it.

However, a quick google reveals a number of companies have already done it - so found the problems, sorted them, and made it work safely. I think I'd be going down that route if I was hoping ot flog the treatment - engineering a safe, working machine at first attempt isn't going to be easy or cheap. wherever you stick the holding tank, you are going to need access into it to clean it - it will gain contamination despite filtering the returning water. I used to design industrial washing plant, and filters that will reliably clean large amounts of water are not cheap - either to buy, or to keep in filter media.