How often do water meters go wrong?

[reb78]

I posted a while back about leaks in our rather long supply pipe from the water main. The supply pipe is ~1.5 miles from the water main and therefore the main water meter to our property. We think we have fixed all of the leaks.

To try to get a better handle on future problems, we have installed a second water meter as the supply pipe enters our property. The meter by the water main (the one the water company use) is consistently reading 200 litres per day more than the one where the pipe enters our property.

When we discovered this, the first thought was that there was another large leak on the supply pipe. BUT investigations where we have exposed and put stop taps into the supply pipe in various points show that with the water turned off for 6+ hours, next to no use is registered at the meter by the water main. At 200 litres a day difference between the meters you would expect a change of 50 litres over six hours if it was due to a leak. Turning the water off as it enters our property today, the meter moved 6 litres in that time - settling in the long pipe run (?) or a potential small leak (?), but nowhere near 50 litres??

We ran a test this evening and ran 20 litres of water and the meter we installed at our end of the pipe turned and registered 20 litres. So does anyone know - how often do water meters fail and over read?? I believe we can pay to have it tested but I just wondered what the likelihood of a fault was before I went down that route?

 

[gaz1]

if you have shut off your tap there should be no movement of the meter

that would quote theres a leak somewhere and that tap is not shutting off

do a video test between the metters and do another the video test is actual proof that your house meter is shut off yet the other meter is reading something else

i suspect old pipes connected to other propertys or at worst an outside tap you dont know of

another test shut your house tap off by the meter turn your house tap on so your pipes run dry but keep the outside meter on

another point depends on your hearing night time is best to try and hear running water if near the surface as its mostly quiet at this time

 

[Tionmer]

i suspect old pipes connected to other propertys or at worst an outside tap you dont know of

This possibility is very high.

 

[Gareth J]

Put a meter in right next to the water company's one. Temporarily move the second one you've got if it's better.

If you find it's over-reading, you could always have an "accident" with their meter and, the good citizen that you are, phone them up to let them know it's stopped working. Might motivate them a bit more to change it.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Just take a reading then fill up a couple of 25l drums or something.
If the meter is over reading it will be out.
Otherwise you still have a leak.

 

[premmington]

Over the years - I have several water leaks - plus I have one "frozen" water meter - that did not turn the numbers.

Local water board - I have found them to be very good about these issues.

We had a water meter explode at our workshop - water coming out of the fitting next to the meter - on our side - uncountable units of water coming out like a fire hydrant! Lads threw meter away - I got billed for last reading and the new reading from the 0000 of the new meter.

 

[8ob]

Pressure varies greatly at different times of the day and night, this may have a bearing on the different meter readings if there is a leak. I would be curious to know if the biggest differential between readings was when pressure peaks, might be worth adding a gauge temporarily to help monitor this ongoing issue.

Bob

 

[reb78]

Thanks all. I am getting to the end if my tether with this issue!

Re the 6 litre movement yesterday, could it be due to air dissolving in the pipes? Everytime we do something with the pipe we let air in. It comes down a steep hill so air goes up as water comes down. We find we then get ‘milky’ water for some time as i think the air dissolves under pressure. Could this explain the 6 litres? We are going to try the shut off again today now the water is running clear.

Re videoing the meters - what videos would people recommend? There is a surprising lag between turning a tap on 1.5 miles away from the meter!

 

[reb78]

Theres definitely nothing else running off of the section of pipe we are currently investigating

 

[Kayos]

They usually stop turning or leak, over reading would be a difficult fault as they are mechanical devices, the turbine turns the counter to read what is used.
It sounds like a leak or a second connection on your main

 

[the snooper]

Turn off the water at your property then put a stick on their meter, put the other end in your ear if there is a leak you will hear water flowing through the meter

 

[the snooper]

Another point is, is the whole 1.5 miles of pipe on your property ?

 

[Agroshield]

Pressure varies greatly at different times of the day and night

I think highest pressure is generally in the dead of night.

If you have fitted stop taps along the pipe, this implies you know the route of the pipe. Have you walked every inch of the 1.5 miles and actively looked for something that could be an 'illicit' connection (like a cattle trough)?

 

[reb78]

Turn off the water at your property then put a stick on their meter, put the other end in your ear if there is a leak you will hear water flowing through the meter

I’ve tried this with a stethascope. Its difficult to tell to be honest. I really dont know what effect the length of this pipe has on things - its not the usual meter on the pavement then a 10ft run to your front door!

 

[reb78]

I think highest pressure is generally in the dead of night.

If you have fitted stop taps along the pipe, this implies you know the route of the pipe. Have you walked every inch of the 1.5 miles and actively looked for something that could be an 'illicit' connection (like a cattle trough)?

Another point is, is the whole 1.5 miles of pipe on your property ?

To answer both of these. It runs across a verge, then a garden, then farmer 1’s fields then farmer 2’s fields then back onto farmer 1’s fields then onto our property. Farmer 1 has been incredibly helpful digging holes and helping us replace pipes. There are three stop taps on his land currently. Turning the top two off see’s no movement in the meter over 6 hours. Turning the bottom one off yesterday saw the 6 litres of movement - but as above that was a lot less than we expected if it was a 200 litre a day leak - this would be the section to concentrate on though.

There are definitely no troughs or houses tee’d into this - we have looked closely at everything that could be like that!

 

[the snooper]

To answer both of these. It runs across a verge, then a garden, then farmer 1’s fields then farmer 2’s fields then back onto farmer 1’s fields then onto our property. Farmer 1 has been incredibly helpful digging holes and helping us replace pipes. There are three stop taps on his land currently. Turning the top two off see’s no movement in the meter over 6 hours. Turning the bottom one off yesterday saw the 6 litres of movement - but as above that was a lot less than we expected if it was a 200 litre a day leak - this would be the section to concentrate on though.

There are definitely no troughs or houses tee’d into this - we have looked closely at everything that could be like that!

So a leak between the last top tap and the bottom tap

 

[Fraserb]

We've never had a meter over reading that we know of, had a couple freeze and stop reading. Dealing with old pipes can be interesting, came across all sorts, pipes joined with a length of rubber hose and a couple of jubilee clips was the best one.

 

[reb78]

So a leak between the last top tap and the bottom tap

Yes potentially, but the amount has really thrown me - 6 litres in 6 hours when we lose 200 between the meters in a 24 hour period? Is there any other explanation for this tiny amount?

The plan today is to re-run the test and turn off the lowest stop tap again and monitor the meter.

If there is use recorded again with the bottom tap turned off, I will run 200ft of blue pipe above ground from the last stop tap to the bottom tap to bypass the lower section of underground pipe completely and then retest.

 

[the snooper]

Yes potentially, but the amount has really thrown me - 6 litres in 6 hours when we lose 200 between the meters in a 24 hour period? Is there any other explanation for this tiny amount?

The plan today is to re-run the test and turn off the lowest stop tap again and monitor the meter.

If there is use recorded again with the bottom tap turned off, I will run 200ft of blue pipe above ground from the last stop tap to the bottom tap to bypass the lower section of underground pipe completely and then retest.

Who laid the whole line, you or water board

 

[8ob]

Yes potentially, but the amount has really thrown me - 6 litres in 6 hours when we lose 200 between the meters in a 24 hour period? Is there any other explanation for this tiny amount?

Peak pressure. Its not a constant pressure.

Bob