Aston Martin Reversible Electric Conversion

[fizzy]

Just as a comparison if a Lithium battery is 580W per litre then diesel fuel is 10,000 W per litre. Such a vast difference.

OK a diesel engine isn't as efficient as an electric motor but by the time you take into account transmission losses from the powerstation - losses when charging - having to heat a car with electricity instead of waste engine heat etc then it isn't such a huge gap - perhaps 45% v 60 to 70%.

I don't know why people think I am biased. I would love an electric car - the thought of not paying fuel duty fills me with joy! But I have looked at leasing one and with the mileage I do the costs are scary.

 

[eddie49]

What about when batteries age and capacity reduced ? Replacements battery packs aren't cheap....

Some interesting statistics about real-world battery life from a dealer who specialises in used EVs, about a car they recently bought in. It was a Nissan Leaf - the most popular ( and most ugly ) electric car:

Year 2015, has covered 120,000 miles ( that's very high for an EV ).
Actual voltage 378v, actual capacity 56.9 Ah. Original ( new ) capacity 66 Ah. So actual state of health ( SoH ) is 87%, which represents a 1% battery degradation per 10,000 miles travelled.
The battery has 192 lithium cells, arranged as a series string of 96 units, each is 2 cells in parallel ( 96S2P ). Lowest unit 3.924v highest 3.950v average 3.938v max diff 26mV.
The most interesting data ( all stored on-board ) concerns charging: the car has been rapid-charged 4224 times. That is at public charge points, using 500v DC at 125A ( the CHAdeMO system ), which can provide an 80% recharge in about half an hour.

It's now been sold. I don't know what the price was.

 

[R-D-R]

Yes, people need to be very wary of battery degradation and some manufacturers are not clear on it. The batteries will naturally loose performance and in some use cases a lot more than the comparable loss of performance (mpg) of an ICE. many manufacturers guarantee the battery for a life of 8 years as they do the motor and drive train. I think with highly recyclable cars there needs to be a shift to recycling this type of car at 8 years rather than selling it on but that needs some kind of rebate system against new which will be a difficult model to implement. I do see NON OEM aftermarket battery replacements becoming the norm in the future.

here's BMW's take, at each service you get a battery analysis:

"
BMW is one of the few EV manufacturers that offer a clear battery capacity loss warranty, and has guaranteed at least 70% capacity for 8 years or 100,000 miles. The stated usable capacity for the 2014 i3 is 18.8 kWh. Therefore, the batterywould need to degrade to 13.15 kWh to trigger a warranty claim.
"

I would also add BMW are starting to offer battery upgrades for customers with the older car they will take the old smaller capacity battery out and repurpose it into power bank stage products for Power companies and rebate that against a brand new higher capacity battery. So in 8 years time you can upgrade if you wish to a brand new higher capacity battery if you wish.

 

[HughF]

Some really good discussion above,

Some terrible discussion going on above, it's like all the daily mail reading, narrow minded, 'the batteries need replacing after 4 years for 40 grand' brigade have found their way onto this forum....

 

[CornishPete]

I'll get one when I can buy a van that can do 500 miles on a 5 minute charge and carry 1.5 ton!

 

[HughF]

I'll get one when I can buy a van that can do 500 miles on a 5 minute charge and carry 1.5 ton!

That will never happen, the physics won't allow it. You'll be still running diesel, albeit in a plug-in series-hybrid drivetrain.

 

[stuvy]

That will never happen, the physics won't allow it. You'll be still running diesel, albeit in a plug-in series-hybrid drivetrain.

This has to be the most common sense answer to the above for a while

 

[R-D-R]

Some terrible discussion going on above, it's like all the daily mail reading, narrow minded, 'the batteries need replacing after 4 years for 40 grand' brigade have found their way onto this forum....

But I quite like it when there is civilised debate like this as there is some education going on somewhere in it. What I do hate (and not referring to this thread) is the EV brigade ramming it down everyone’s throat that it works for everyone and is the perfect solution. Which is why I stay off EV forums.


I own both and love both and neither replaces the use case for the other at the moment. Hybrids between the two will be a big factor in the future.

 

[HughF]

But I quite like it when there is civilised debate like this as there is some education going on somewhere in it. What I do hate (and not referring to this thread) is the EV brigade ramming it down everyone’s throat that it works for everyone and is the perfect solution. Which is why I stay off EV forums.


I own both and love both and neither replaces the use case for the other at the moment. Hybrids between the two will be a big factor in the future.

True, I've been hanging out on SpeakEV for too long and it has probably skewed my opinion....

I own both (well, technically you could say I don't, I drive an ampera) like both, and agree that without off road parking you are pretty much screwed.

I expect to see bias the other way on this forum because I assume (rightly or wrongly) that there are a lot of folks on here who run older, cheaper stuff that they fix themselves. People who don't like the thought of pcp with no plan to own when the term comes around.

 

[stuvy]

True, I've been hanging out on SpeakEV for too long and it has probably skewed my opinion....

I own both (well, technically you could say I don't, I drive an ampera) like both, and agree that without off road parking you are pretty much screwed.

I expect to see bias the other way on this forum because I assume (rightly or wrongly) that there are a lot of folks on here who run older, cheaper stuff that they fix themselves. People who don't like the thought of pcp with no plan to own when the term comes around.

I have a cheap hack to get to work as I don’t see the point of wasting money on a new car to commute in. Iv got a fast car for weekends and still have a few other toys like cars and bikes to play with

My missus has a new car on hp she likes new cars and wasting money on something she doesn’t own but looks nice on the driveway

 

[CornishPete]

My point (all be it in a slightly flippant manner!) was that as long as it does the same job, cleaner, cheaper, or better, I don't care how it's powered!
Throughout history new technology has emerged and if that eventually gets cleaner, cheaper, or better than the existing technology it becomes the norm.
Steam engines didn't become obsolete because we ran out of coal!
I don't see electric vehicles being different in this respect, but I do think we're a bit off yet though to replace ICE across the board.

 

[HughF]

I'll get one when I can buy a van that can do 500 miles on a 5 minute charge and carry 1.5 ton!

Although I would like to ask if you really need, or really should be allowed (for safety) a 5 minute turnaround time after driving 500 miles?

If it's going to sit for >1hr after that 500 mile journey before being called upon to do it again then current battery and charging technology will do what you require. The vehicle isn't manufactured yet though.

 

[HughF]

I have a cheap hack to get to work as I don’t see the point of wasting money on a new car to commute in. Iv got a fast car for weekends and still have a few other toys like cars and bikes to play with

My missus has a new car on hp she likes new cars and wasting money on something she doesn’t own but looks nice on the driveway

Total cost of ownership of cheap hack over your ownership? On average.

Kia soul £229/month all in, Renault Zoe is about the same. No tax/servicing/breakdown cover costs

 

[stuvy]

Although I would like to ask if you really need, or really should be allowed (for safety) a 5 minute turnaround time after driving 500 miles?

If it's going to sit for >1hr after that 500 mile journey before being called upon to do it again then current battery and charging technology will do what you require. The vehicle isn't manufactured yet though.

In my previous job I had to drive to the centre of London to either drop parts off or fix diggers on hire

I needed a 4x4 double cab as I needed to also gain access to diggers on site with tools and also tow a mini digger for hire too. Due to the euro4,5,6 what ever it is in London it has to be a new vehicle.

Most of the week I had to fill up 4 or 5 times as it only had a range of 400 miles. I ran M/T tyres due to traction off road and nearly every day I’d drive from 5.30am until about 5/6pm typically later


Are there any £30k 4x4 evs out there that can do the same task and have the same gvw to tow?

 

[stuvy]

Total cost of ownership of cheap hack over your ownership? On average.

Kia soul £229/month all in, Renault Zoe is about the same. No tax/servicing/breakdown cover costs

Payed £400 for my RAV4 mk1 it’s had a tyre for £59 and a set of brake pads for £9 plus a service at about £60

Iv had it two years so yeah your right I haven’t had my money out of it at all

It was also not a god send being 4x4 in the snow

 

[R-D-R]

Topical spot just now walking into the office not sure how long these have been here I walk this street twice a week:

Street charging via lampposts will look up what scene it’s on. Be interested in the charge rate they give bet it’s only 16amp.

 

[stuvy]

I remember seeing lampposts into caravans like that when I was a kid

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

Where I live that would last all of 30 seconds before going missing...and I'm taking about the cable, the car AND the lamp post!

I have been looking at the Hyundai Kona electric for some time now...it's the first electric car that caught my attention in terms of range and equally as importantly price.

 

[daleyd]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47418405

10 years ago Pininfarina made an electric car with a top speed of 85 mph and range of 125 miles. The new one will do > 250 mph and a range of 280 miles.

I guess that's some indication of how far and fast things have come, and will continue to...

 

[rtbcomp]

That will never happen, the physics won't allow it. You'll be still running diesel, albeit in a plug-in series-hybrid drivetrain.

I wouldn't bet on it. If they can get the energy density up and /or fuel cells (not necessarily hydgrogen fuel cells) smaller there's no need for an ICE. If manufacturers could dispense with ICEs they would, and it's this that's driving research.