Apprentices

[Tinbasherdan]

Must say, with appos sometimes it’s a two way street. I’ve seen plenty of them that don’t want to do anything and have no interest, but at the same time there’s a hell of a lot of tradesmen with a chip on their shoulder about youngsters and no matter what, will not help them.
I don’t mind helping anyone if they want to learn, I dislike spending time on those that don’t, but I give them a chance first. I think some of the time at least, a lot of the issue is that appos are treat like cheap labour, they spend 2 years doing absolute crap jobs no one else wants and then everyone wonders why they have no motivation. Mix it up a bit, let them work on some interesting stuff with you

 

[Cyberprog]

Must say, with appos sometimes it’s a two way street. I’ve seen plenty of them that don’t want to do anything and have no interest, but at the same time there’s a hell of a lot of tradesmen with a chip on their shoulder about youngsters and no matter what, will not help them.
I don’t mind helping anyone if they want to learn, I dislike spending time on those that don’t, but I give them a chance first. I think some of the time at least, a lot of the issue is that appos are treat like cheap labour, they spend 2 years doing absolute crap jobs no one else wants and then everyone wonders why they have no motivation. Mix it up a bit, let them work on some interesting stuff with you

The problem is that you don't *get* to work on interesting stuff till you can prove you can do the boring ****! An apprentice is there to learn, and learning is generally fairly boring!

 

[Kayos]

Was a good meeting, all the lads have volunteered for the work experience which is a good start.

I'm not comitted to them, if it's not working I just tell the college, I'm also not interviewing, will be a working interview

First one starts Thursday 21st

 

[bump]

The problem is that you don't *get* to work on interesting stuff till you can prove you can do the boring ****! An apprentice is there to learn, and learning is generally fairly boring!

I disagree, Apprentices can work on the interesting but non critical stuff at the same time as doing the boring stuff. The ideal is that the boring stuff learning is entwined with the interesting non critical stuff. This is certainly possible in the tech field, less so possibly in others. Back in my early days everyone had on site kit and datacentre kit. You'd start off playing on the older less critical internal kit and work your way up if you were somewhere that offered 20% time then use that time to make some interesting things for the non critical systems.. Now it's all in the cloud it's a bit different but as we offer 20% time to our apprentices we still let them do interesting things. One built a library booking system for our internal tech library. We also run firebreak weeks where we work on non mission based things that interest us alongside work (blog post from firebreak last year),

 

[Tinbasherdan]

The problem is that you don't *get* to work on interesting stuff till you can prove you can do the boring ****! An apprentice is there to learn, and learning is generally fairly boring!

Then your tradesman is at fault. It takes nothing to show an appo something interesting and let them help if there’s something they can do. Wouldn’t expect them to be on their own, but with a tradesman, yeah

 

[Cobbler]

When I was not long out of school, I worked for an electrician. His favourite saying was “if I told you, your’d be as wise as me.” He sacked me, best thing he had ever done. What an attitude! he never kept anyone long, awful man.

 

[ronan]

I am involved in a very small way with trying to get young people who have dropped out of school, or who did not do that well in school, into the trade of fitter. I always stress doing an apprenticeship is not like school, you are not sitting in a classroom being bored stupid. You are basically an employee, who is learning, and that doing a trade is not a dead end, you can progress through evening classes, or take time out once qualified, and do a degree. But parents now are convinced that apprenticeships are a dead end, you'll be the slob in the van with dirty finger nails.

Its the governments i blame, you have some dollop minister in a ill-fitting suit standing up and boasting that x amount of young people are now in third level degree courses. The fact these degrees might only get you a job as a burger flipper, is lost on the parents.

 

[ronan]

When I was not long out of school, I worked for an electrician. His favourite saying was “if I told you, your’d be as wise as me.” He sacked me, best thing he had ever done. What an attitude! he never kept anyone long, awful man.

I always hope Karma is real, with people like that.

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

I keep saying if you get the right young people they're really good... but....

one I thought was good has been a bit unreliable lately, missed a few days, late back from lunch etc.. he text me last night he's leaving... he wanted to come in this morning get a full weeks pay and then leave... his mother has told him he's entitled to holiday pay so he wants 28 days holiday pay too.... he's only worked for me for 3 months... and he owes me £550 I lent him a couple of weeks back

he said his mother is going to go see a solicitor if I don't pay him "what he's due"

he insisted he's come in today and get this weeks pay + 28 days holiday pay... and then come back tomorrow with the £550 he owes.... must think I'm an idiot :-o

Holiday pay is accrued what's she on about.bloody chancers.

 

[Hitch]

He sounds like someone needs to take him under their wing and show him the ropes properly. I was quite shy as an apprentice ( drafty), luckily we were each given a mentor who taught us the ins and outs.
Mine was an ex fabricator so he knew everyone on the shop floor and through him I was introduced to some great guys who remain good friends. I think the fact that I mucked in with most things , from scraping spatter off of welds before painting, to pulling bolts out from the stores helped. Some of the other office apprentices in my year were a bit up themselves, and it was obvious they were not liked. Little things like the welders striking an arc just as they were walking past to make them jump. (They would wait for me to pass before starting) In turn , I showed the younger workshop apprentices how to read drawings properly, and would be helpful wherever I could.
I think your comment about being put in a corner and forgotten is the key thing here. Find out why he is there, was it because he had nothing else available to him, or does he have a genuine interest in what he is doing. If no one is showing him properly , and he is too intimidated etc to ask then both parties may be missing an opportunity.

I had him on with me for a day earlier in the week. Didnt see him drift off or sit fiddling with his phone once all day.
Gave him one job at a time. An hour in, hes getting the bolts ready and waiting before I was even ready. He even picked up on one bit that wasnt quite right that I hadnt noticed.
Put a word in with managment for him too, suggested hes put on with someone more often, instead of being left in the corner.

 

[Cobbler]

I always hope Karma is real, with people like that.

I could tell of a load more stories about the year I worked for him Ronan, here is not the place. If I get time to write it, I’ll send it pm.

 

[Revs1972]

I had him on with me for a day earlier in the week. Didnt see him drift off or sit fiddling with his phone once all day.
Gave him one job at a time. An hour in, hes getting the bolts ready and waiting before I was even ready. He even picked up on one bit that wasnt quite right that I hadnt noticed.
Put a word in with managment for him too, suggested hes put on with someone more often, instead of being left in the corner.

Nice one. If he's being more productive then it's a win win all round. He will find his day goes quicker too.

 

[Keith 66]

Working in a school as a D&T technician i see a lot of kids come through, What has been said about phone addiction is so true, they cant leave the poxy things alone. Most have no clue about practical things because every waking hour outside school is taken up with gaming. And yet some surprise me & give me a bit of hope. Last week had some of last years year 11's come back to pick up their projects, One who at school was frankly a right imature dork turned up straight from work, he is now working as an apprentice builder & loving it.
And on thursday we had a metalwork lesson, no separate metal benches So all 24 metal work vices live in a rack & have to be put out into the wood vices before the lesson starts. At the end we have to put them all back. A royal pain & when you can only lift with one arm it takes a while. One of the lads (year 8) who is often in trouble sees me start & just mucks in putting them back without being asked, I made a point of saying thank you! He will do allright he has a good attitude.

 

[gaz1]

So all 24 metal work vices live in a rack & have to be put out into the wood vices before the lesson starts. At the end we have to put them all back. A royal pain & when you can only lift with one arm it takes a while. One of the lads (year 8) who is often in trouble sees me start & just mucks in putting them back without being asked, I made a point of saying thank you! He will do allright he has a good attitude.

at that id take him under my wing and aid him and see what he really can do in your lesson

if there willing to muck in and help without asking they are worth my time

 

[Keith 66]

I would but unfortunately D&T doesnt work like that any more, it is now 90% theory, our head of dept is hoping to get a 3d art & design course running for the more practically minded kids next year, not before time. We will have to see how it goes.

 

[gaz1]

no offense and not your fault but 90% theory and 10% practical

whats the point in the lesson

id rather do 100% theory and next lesson 100% practical

then they wonder why kids have there heads in phones bored to tears with the lesson

edit

ask the kids what theyed like to do 100% theory and next lesson 100% practical it was a choice a college teacher offered us we choose this option

 

[angellonewolf]

i agree but @gaz1 beat me to it

we used to do the same at school lesson or 2 then the same on tools its what we used to wait for

 

[brightspark]

Then your tradesman is at fault. It takes nothing to show an appo something interesting and let them help if there’s something they can do. Wouldn’t expect them to be on their own, but with a tradesman, yeah

most of the lads I've had that were interested got to learn real fast and got good stuff to do as well as the crap. the only ones that didn't were those that weren't interested in learning and they didn't last long with me . one actually threatened me if I got him finished . he said he would grass me up to gaffer for shopping in his time finishing early and nicking his gear I just said please yourself went in office . told gaffer id had it with him and he has something to tell you .having worked for him for 25 years never let him down he wasn't going to sack me I just told him what he already knew and the lad was gone

 

[Cyberprog]

Then your tradesman is at fault. It takes nothing to show an appo something interesting and let them help if there’s something they can do. Wouldn’t expect them to be on their own, but with a tradesman, yeah

We're not doing stuff as a traditional trade, we're working on IT systems which are relied upon by literally thousands of users, and for which mistakes which cause outages and downtime can cost into the millions. You don't get to play with that stuff until you've proved yourself!

 

[Keith 66]

no offense and not your fault but 90% theory and 10% practical
whats the point in the lesson?Un Quote]

You may well ask! I wonder this all the time. But i am just the technician, the teachers do the teaching (or try) But they do not set the syllabus, The system & exam boards set that & the schools (academies/buisnesses) tell their staff to teach it. Unfortunately they have gone down the top heavy theory road at the expense of any practical skills. It is no wonder most of you have trouble finding decent apprentices they simply have no practical skills at all.
I honestly feel like bicycle repair man most of the time.