Welding rods

[simon718]

Muggins those phoenix rods arent as nice as the blue box bohler ones, if you like ill post you a dozen or two over to play with

 

[aero]

I find with the red box pheonix rods if you run them with the current 5-10 amps over what you would normally they work better. Nothing like as nice as the Oerlikon rods I was using last year though.

 

[irondarren]

I just got a shed load of rods, various assorted ones where somebody has cleared out there garage, plenty of lastek ones there 1010, 1001, 20, 005, plus various e612 disimilars, cast rods, cutting rods. I might snap a few photos of the various types. funny thing is there is only one box of 6013 unbranded, i do remember seeing some 6012s

 

[simon718]

Hi Ian, the blue box bohlers should be widely available, alot of people rate them highly, i definatly prefer them over the phoenix ones. And i think your right, the phoenix ones will have been in a pink/red box, take it you didnt see the rods in the box?

While were on the subject of rods, i really want to try some of the other spec of rods (7024 etc.) but i'm led to believe they need a higher OCV than that of my teeny little welder, is this the case with them all??

 

[chrisg3103]

indeed they are the red box rods, never knew there was such variety! didnt go looking for bohler, just what was in stock

 

[snowcat]

bohler do about 6 types of 6013s, the Phoenix ones have a rutile/cellulose based coateing which makes the electrode all position, including vertical down, something that many 6013s are not capable of...

you may be comparing them to a bohler sus, the extra silicon will wet the weld and give a more flow able pool.....but there only a rutile coated so are not a full true position rod..

If you've got the initials after the bohler stamp, I could tell you the exact characteristics of the rod....

 

[snowcat]

Hi snow,

The only markings that I can see on the whole rod are the ones on the photo in my previous post.

Regards,

Ian.

Hi, they would be the Phoenix which are the all positional, cel/rutile coated, also good for small transformers AKA a buzz box...

I just wondered what the blue box bohlers were that they were compared with, they would too have something written on em

 

[Richiew]

They market Bohler Fox Sum in a blue box. Might have been those.

 

[simon718]

also good for small transformers AKA a buzz box...

Snowcat can you recommend any other spec of rods i could try? Managed some reasonable looking vert down beads on a bit of plate with the rods muggins posted a pic of, havent tried with the blue box ones, which i think are the ones Rich mentioned. Cannot manage to get anything that looks remotely like a bead uphill, just blobs of messy weld, but havent been practicing much at the moment

 

[scarecrow]

Snowcat can you recommend any other spec of rods i could try? Managed some reasonable looking vert down beads on a bit of plate with the rods muggins posted a pic of, havent tried with the blue box ones, which i think are the ones Rich mentioned. Cannot manage to get anything that looks remotely bead uphill but havent been practicing much at the moment

I'd be interested Snowcat in what you would consider to be the best vertical up Rod around

 

[Drains]

I'd be interested Snowcat in what you would consider to be the best vertical up Rod around

I bet he says Comet 7016's

Or maybe Lincoln Hyrod 7018's, after Xmas.

I'd say any 7016/7018 for weldability and looks, but you can do a decent uphill with a good 6013, and a messy looking one with a 6010.

It aint the rods anyway, if their half decent, it's the operator

 

[snowcat]

On a 6013 a bohler SPE is an excellent out of position rod, your quite right si, the UTP Comets 7016 are also very good, Bohler do make an EV47, 7016 which is supposed to have out of position characteristics, but iv only ever used the UTP side of there range....

those Phoenix you have Simon should handle pretty well tho, the addition of cellulose on the coating helps.....some call these a fast freeze rod, which is not strictly true thats a 6010/11, a 6013 is a fast fill rod...

down hand (stoveing) is always going to give a tidy looking bead, but be aware this is not structural, and only tends to be a wash, even with a rod designed for the job, 6010/11 and some 13s, it can lead to cracking......

I think at the mo perseverance with the Phoenix will be your key, its not so much the rod (tho that helps) its getting the technique right, If I get a chance (or can dig a welder from the truck) IL do some 3G runs with the Phoenix, IL try and pause em so you can see the technique......


Have you tried Murex Vodex BTW scarecrow, many old boys rave about em, (mostly cause there as old as they are) personally I don't rate em, but they've always had the reputation for positional work......

 

[scarecrow]

Have you tried Murex Vodex BTW scarecrow, many old boys rave about em, (mostly cause there as old as they are) personally I don't rate em, but they've always had the reputation for positional work......

I have heard of them but haven't used them my old oil cooled welder was much better at burning 7018 and disimilars than my aircooled so don't use them much any more I've been thinking about getting one of them fancy little welders sounds like they should be able to cope with all types of Rod . And I'll have to work on my image as I'm not the bloody old

 

[snowcat]

I've been thinking about getting one of them fancy little welders sounds like they should be able to cope with all types of Rod::

yeah inverters are great, really does take the strain out of arc welding, the only rods that some still wont run are 6010s although most major brands do a machine with a cellulose capability, In all honesty its few and far between those who have the need to stovepipe these days....me included


old scarecrow never thought you were

 

[dutchman]

I've got two boxes of Phoenix Blau. Good rods I guess, easy to weld with, but usually get a wide bead with them. When I switch to Rekord z509, it all looks perfect. Not sure why this is though. Probably due to lack of skill.

 

[snowcat]

Ok limited success with the camera just couldn't get the angles I wanted, or it blurred but this one came out quite well, showing the idea of up hand arc welding......

bellow the blue line is slag removed above is slag un chipped, this was weld as 3F (vertical fillet progrostion)....with a 6013 bohler Phoenix, at around 100amps, (this would be two hot for learning on) DCEP....

the two red lines show where I slightly paused, the center is not as important as the edges, imagine 2 lines one on each plate and work to that, it is very important to keep the arc length, and lead angle (angle of rod to work) correct, the arc needs to be as tight as possible to wards the Edges, with virtually Nil lead angle, this is lengthened as you draw the rod across the work, a common problem that I have to check myself from doing is to increase the lead angle as you work up the plate this is because your not lifting your shoulder, it is vital you keep your arm parallel to the plate as you progress....

A Christmas tree movement is common, but I use a more circular motion, Its preference thats all, I also as I have a screw type holder (rather than horrible clamps)and bend my rods to suit the position of the weld (again prefrance)...

Don't rush and progress slowly along the joint, when you start to get them correct the slag will look grizzly, but just fall away from the weld......

second picture is the same joint slag removed, not a great picture im afraid...

HTH

 

[irondarren]

I just did a few welds, including a short vertical up. done using BOC everyday rods (no super suited to all positions but ok). slag was still hot when first taken, serious amounts of it, looks a real mess, but chip the slag away and it looks better (well sort of)

 

[demonwelder]

We used to do alot of capping with them, They were great rods

I also used these rods at college excelent rods for raw beginners good finish easy to use and still available "MUREX MIRROSPEED". Every one seems to call them "mirrorspeed" including me untill I googled then dug out an old pack of rods to check who made them. I'm new to the forum so I this will help anyone else who is looking for an easy to use rod. It's a long time since the original message was posted hope this helps.n

 

[rory1]

Have you tried Murex Vodex BTW scarecrow,

im a big fan of the VODEX, great for positional, they dont seam to suffer with dampness as much as other rods, great in the winter rain when you have lift your rod quiver under the bench about 100 miles away!!

many old boys rave about em, (mostly cause there as old as they are)[/

Im only a young pup!

 

[HOUNDMAGNET]

The murex vodex rods are brilliant and i would say almost "idiot proof"!....i use them whenever i have to do any arc welding.
we once tried the machine mart rods and they were appauling.The arc wouldnt maintain properly and the slag spatter was the worst i have seen,i managed to trap slag in the weld which i dont do with the vodex rods.

for anyone doing any oxy acetalyne welding i can offer a tip if you are stuck for a filler rod for mild steel/cast iron.....i was in that position on a job once that needed a bit of brazing work and where i would normally use a c2 rod i actually used a wire coat hanger!!.....the part needing repair was a very lightly loaded support for a machine tool jig positioner of cast iron and 5yrs on it is still in position....i originally done this as a temporary repair to get the machine working again.