Yet another Mig or Tig

[tobyanscombe]

Hi - I'm posting this while I scan through the archive...

I am after a welder; predominantly for automotive work on my MG Midget which after 9 years of living outside needs some welding to be done. That and I now have a garage in which to work, ok, so I had to buy a house to get it but its worth it.

I have welded before but mainly arc and gas and it was about 15 years ago...one of the last apprenticeships that were around (HNC and HND but much beer has been consumed since then).

I am in a position where I can ***** some money (£500ish) if needed and I will notice the difference. I know that good results can be achieved with MIG but I am curious over TIG and what it may do for me.

From the look of it the AC/DC sets run to about 1k - is there anything cheap and yet good (oxymoron?)

Otherwise, it should get me a decent MIG from the look of it - If weldequip is watching then I am more than happy to throw some money at you as you seem to be rather prominent on these forums and reccomendations count for a lot

TIA - off to read now...

 

[shenion]

AC/DC is about £1K for anything decent. However, if you don't need to do Aluminum, then you can get a cheaper DC-only TIG for probably £750.

There are lots of Chinese TIG units around. Kinda hit and miss on reliability and local service. Most also don't have a footpedal.

If all you plan on doing is body/frame repairs and a bit of fab work in steel, then a MIG will do fine. TIG would do better and be more versatile, but it is difficult to use in awkward positions and is slower. It also requires a bit more skill but if you have done gas, then TIG will be easier. MIG is fast, easy and does nice smooth welds in any position.

I started with a small MIG (Clarke 130) and only went to TIG to do Al welding. If I started over, I would have gotten a 180A MIG.

PM weldequip and DIY Welding, they both have good MIG/TIG units.

 

[irondarren]

Not going to get a good AC/DC tig for under £1000, i looked for ages, then ended up buy an inverter fusion 200 phf which cost me about £700 odd and its DC only great machine, can do mild steel and stainless no worries and of course MMA rods up to 180amps. Tig isnt the ideal thing for Car repairs, it has to be so clean to use TIG and positional welding is difficult. Having said that if i was ever to do a classic restoration project there is no way i would let a MIG near the thing, it would be TIG all the way, and i would cope with the positional welding.

If you primary use is to restore an MG midget then a 130amp mig unit would be plenty good enough, one of the clarke units will set you back about £200, then you need gas, and auto helmet is nice to have (£50 ish) if you go via the BOC route to get gas bottle rental will cost about £50-60 a year and a refill about £30 ish (i think) say £100 for gas and wire. means you got change out of £400 as there are other odds and ends you need. The clarke units go down to 30amps which isnt a bad starting amperage.
Now the portamig unit that Malcolm and some of the others have goes down as low as 20 amps (a big difference) it also goes up to 185 amps. The lower amperage is a big benefit on thin sheet. But Im guess here that a portamig unit wont leave you much change out of £500, it is an automotive welder as opposed to a DIY machine which the clarkes is. With the bigger machine you get a better wire feed unit which results in smoother welds, because the wire feed is more constant. You generally get smoother welding because its a better machine. but its the price. (beat weldequip over the head a few times and see what the best price he can offer is, get him to sort a deal on an auto helm as well)

If after your MG midget you get the bug for car restoration then a better machine will be money well spent, or if you think you can charge a few friends money for the odd welding jobs then spend the extra, it will be well worth it.

 

[tobyanscombe]

Thanks for the reply - I have been searching high and low online for the Portamigs as they seem to be the forum favourites in that price bracket but have not found any...

Any clues as to where I should look?

The chassis is still good and it is more panels that require replacing (the normal rust in the rear quarters) coupled to some other bits and bobs like panhard rods and anti tramp bars. As I am putting a decent workshop together (I really miss the pleasure of mech eng) I dont mind too much spending over; I just need to get permission first!

I have seen some TIG welding on other cars and it does look so much neater that I thought as I was starting from scratch I would see what the price breakpoints were. 20-185A seems like a much more flexible route to go given that I am only in my 30's and want something that I can grow into (much like my Mum bought my shoes when I was a kid..). I dont want to get to a point in a couple of years time and think "bugger, should have spent more money and got x rather than y".

 

[irondarren]

you can do most things with a 180 amp machine, for a few years when i first strted working for myself making gates and railings i managed rather well with a sealey 180 super mig. I did almost everything i wanted, just ment you had to prepare joints correctly when welding much above 6mm plate together, 15mm plate means nice prepped joints and multiple runs, no big issue. Now i am managing on a 250amp machine, which i still have to prep 15mm plate but just means a single run.

MTA sell the portamig unit, under there own brand name. check here
http://www.migtigarc.co.uk/MIG_Welder/mig_welder.html

Weldequip can beat MTA's prices on the portamig units, i believe

 

[tobyanscombe]

Thanks; is it just me and thee on here today?

From the look of it that, a Eurotorch (which seems to be just the fitting rather than anything else or have I mis-read), auto helmet and other stuff should bring me up to £500.

From the Arc stuff from years ago I seem to recall that getting better than average earth leads being a good thing; I can still remember being told to remove the earth clamp..ouch!

Any other recommendations such as helmet, wire etc? I'm a tad premature as I will be buying when I get back from my holiday in September but want to get some idea of budget and then get some scrap to practice on...

 

[irondarren]

If you go for the portamig unit, that means you can use the 15kg rolls of wire. Wire size depends on what you are welding, less than 3mm thick i would say 0.6mm wire above that then 0.8mm wire. 15kgs of wire normally costs about £20 ish. its more economical to buy the larger reels.

A euro torch is the connector type, it has big advantages over the fixed torches sold on the diy machines, one of those being should the torch get broken or wear out it take 3 mins to replace. I normally replace my whole torch every 18months cost about £50. The other advantage is in the euro torch style you can get torches in 3mtr, 4mtr and 5mtr lengths. I use a 4mtr one a 5mtr is a little to long and can cause wire feed problems.

Helmet wise i would go for an auto darkening helmet, which basically allows you to see what you are doing, but when you arc up goes to a dark shade. The parweld one is as good as you get for the price about £50 ish, there are plenty of cheap ones on ebay, but some dont meet UK standards and dont change to dark quick enough meaning you see the flash, which is bad for your eyes.

The other thing you want is a nice pair of welding glooves or guantlets, I prefer TIG glooves which are thinner than standard welding guantlets.

Send a PM to weldequip and ask him to quote for a full welding kit as such, helmet glooves, and other bits. Unless weldequip wants to make a comment on this thread and make some reccomendations on safety equip required etc

 

[MarkMG]

Hi Toby

Welcome, I'm a MG Midget guy too, I've been using a secondhand Clarke 150TE, given me no problems, parts are easy, emergency at machine mart or cheap with tech help from weldequip. Choice of gas sources, little or big.

I too started with arc and Oxy, Mig came real easy, I can chase holes all day long with ease. lol.

I'm guessing your the same Toby as on the MG Midget forum, I'm MarkDJ from Glos.

cheers

 

[tobyanscombe]

Hi Toby
I'm guessing your the same Toby as on the MG Midget forum, I'm MarkDJ from Glos.

It's me....

I have no fear building screaming engines but struggle when it comes to bodywork; farmed it out last time as I didnt have anywhere to work but want to do it all this time.

Besides, I will need it for a pet project I am working on in time for Spridget 50 next year....

 

[MarkMG]

I've managed this much so far

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1588

Need to do the same on the other side, finding the time with a young family is the biggest hurdle.

I have the same goal, Spridget 50.


As for welders, I'm getting the impression TIG is good for bench work but is a great deal more difficult for car body work, I bought a spot welder instead off of flea bay, though it would be a better route to go.