Wiring Nightmare

[Brad93]

Machine had mr. Rat chewing on its cables.

I've got this wiring diagram.

However, I've got no sign of a capacitor on this machine to go with the single phase motor. Maybe it's been removed, maybe the wiring diagram doesn't go with this specific model. The speed control is a small motor turning a leadscrew the closes or opens the CV pulley.

Also very helpful that the wiring numbers have not been used on the actual machine.

"C" in a circle has got to be a capacitor. "R" in a circle? Resistor?

 

[Anguz]

difficult to read on a phone, but the motor on the drawing looks 3 phase to me

edit... it says 3 phase

 

[Brad93]

difficult to read on a phone, but the motor on the drawing looks 3 phase to me

edit... it says 3 phase

That's the drive motor, I'm on about the motor bottom left, single phase with a start winding and a run winding (presumably) in the section that says speed control.

 

[m_c]

I'd say that they're bulbs/indicator lamps, as they're permanently connected between L1 and N.

The single phase motor might not use capacitors. Could be something like a shaded pole motor.

 

[Brad93]

I'd say that they're bulbs/indicator lamps, as they're permanently connected between L1 and N.

The single phase motor might not use capacitors. Could be something like a shaded pole motor.

Only one lamp on the machine

 

[Turbo]

The item in the photo looks like a timer relay or a current sensing relay.
It pulls in the start windings for a set period of time or until the current in the run windings drops to a preset number.
They are used instead of a centrifugal switch.

 

[m_c]

Only one lamp on the machine

Doesn't mean that there wasn't two at some point, or one was optional.
From the diagram, I'd assume that the curvy lines and additional dots/terminals to C have some significance, such as a something on a flexible lead, whereas R with it's straight lines is fixed.

 

[m_c]

The item in the photo looks like a timer relay or a current sensing relay.
It pulls in the start windings for a set period of time or until the current in the run windings drops to a preset number.
They are used instead of a centrifugal switch.

The timer appears to only be powered when a limit switch is triggered, and then when it's triggered, cuts power to the motor.

I can't figure out the reasoning behind it, as the limit switches appear to cut power to the motor in the relevant direction anyway.
Only thing I can think of is it's to prevent the speed control from being changed for a period after hitting a limit switch???

 

[Brad93]

Doesn't mean that there wasn't two at some point, or one was optional.
From the diagram, I'd assume that the curvy lines and additional dots/terminals to C have some significance, such as a something on a flexible lead, whereas R with it's straight lines is fixed.

Hmm perhaps but I doubt it as the panel looks original.

I think it could signify a capacitor, especially with the wiggly lines

 

[Brad93]

The item in the photo looks like a timer relay or a current sensing relay.
It pulls in the start windings for a set period of time or until the current in the run windings drops to a preset number.
They are used instead of a centrifugal switch.

I'm not sure if it's that complex of a timer. Inside is literally a small relay, a resistor, a capacitor and a little 555 type

The timer appears to only be powered when a limit switch is triggered, and then when it's triggered, cuts power to the motor.

I can't figure out the reasoning behind it, as the limit switches appear to cut power to the motor in the relevant direction anyway.
Only thing I can think of is it's to prevent the speed control from being changed for a period after hitting a limit switch???

this was also my thinking, what purpose does it serve. I think all I can do is try and wire up the machine as the diagram shows. The only bit I'm gonna struggle with is working out which pins on the switch go to which wires. I'll take some pictures tomorrow.

 

[m_c]

Hmm perhaps but I doubt it as the panel looks original.

I think it could signify a capacitor, especially with the wiggly lines

I've never seen a capacitor drawn like that, plus there's no operational reason to connect a capacitor between L1 and N.

The symbol looks more like a modified Bulb symbol, from before electrical symbols became standardised.
C and R could depict colour, position, or the name of lamps/indicators.

 

[Brad93]

I've never seen a capacitor drawn like that, plus there's no operational reason to connect a capacitor between L1 and N.

The symbol looks more like a modified Bulb symbol, from before electrical symbols became standardised.
C and R could depict colour, position, or the name of lamps/indicators.

The single phase motor must need a capacitor somewhere? Unless as above the timer has something to do with it

 

[m_c]

The single phase motor must need a capacitor somewhere? Unless as above the timer has something to do with it

Depends on what kind of motor is fitted.
A speed control motor doesn't have to be fast or produce much power, plus it likely needs to turn fairly slowly, which something like a shaded pole motor would manage, while not needing any capacitors or gearing.

 

[Turbo]

What country is the machine from?
I think the c and r are bulbs and the letter is the colour of the bulb in the native language.

I used to work for Karcher and I became quite good at reading German wiring diagrams as that's the only language they were printed in.

 

[daleyd]

What country is the machine from?
I think the c and r are bulbs and the letter is the colour of the bulb in the native language.

I used to work for Karcher and I became quite good at reading German wiring diagrams as that's the only language they were printed in.

I worked for French company for 10 years and all our schematics had French/English/German wording - I had quite a decent knowledge of French and German technical words by the time I finished!!

 

[daleyd]

Hard to make out on a phone, I’ll try and get a better look today. I’d agree the timer looks like it pure the motor in slow mode to come out of limit switches for a period of time, but it’s not exactly clear what those c and r components are or what their purpose is. Being connected permanently between a live and neutral (I think) could they be an RC network of some sort - but I don’t know what the purpose would be?

 

[RichardM]

Lamps.
C= current, ie live, R = running
Just my guess as they seem the be using symbols for other switches etc.

 

[Brad93]

What country is the machine from?
I think the c and r are bulbs and the letter is the colour of the bulb in the native language.

I used to work for Karcher and I became quite good at reading German wiring diagrams as that's the only language they were printed in.

England

 

[Brad93]

I think the best thing to do is wire it up on the bench and go from there

 

[Brad93]

Well I've got nowhere with this.

The timer PCB thing powers up, the lights on the board come on then go off after the allotted 2 seconds, The relay clicks off. However the relay contacts stay closed. So relay must be duff. It's clicking but not doing anything to the output contacts (purple wires)